How many coaches have you tossed?

[mcrowder]

Originally posted by JFA67

Interesting how you can suspect without knowing anything about me. Or my experience level.

Well, I used the word "suspect" SPECIFICALLY because I don't know you. How else should I have phrased this, Mr. Sensitive? And I don't believe I said a single word about your experience level. There's a reason I said "No offense intended" as well, but some people can't accept even the mildest difference of opinion without getting defensive.

For the record, I won't let any coach question my integrity, use profanity, insult me etc, etc.

I have canned a few baseball coaches. Since this is a softball forum I didn't count them. Same goes for players.

I say "proud to say none" because I have managed the game well enough not to have use the last resort and eject a softball coach... yet.

You're kind of making my point for me.

If an umpire feels somehow that his game management skills would take a hit if they had to resort to an ejection, it's entirely likely that umpire has let things go that warrant an ejection. If someone has ejected more than 3-4 per year, then yeah - he probably has some game management issues. But I'd actually say the same about someone who has ejected less than 1 every couple of years.

Mind you, I'm not an OOO or a guy who revels in his ejections. I'm just saying that regardless of your level of experience, if you've not ejected a guy at all, you've either been VERY lucky, or you've let stuff go that you shouldn't have. JMHO

[mcrowder]

Originally posted by JFA67

I don't disagree with either of you, my point is if you handle situations properly and practice preventive officating, ejections should be few and far between.

I guess I'm just trying to say there's a middle ground, and that there are problems with "not enough" just as bad as the problems that come with "too many".

I think that slightly less than 1 per season would qualify as few and far between.

When evaluating umpires, I see far too much let go that shouldn't be.

[JFA67]

Originally posted by mcrowder

I guess I'm just trying to say there's a middle ground, and that there are problems with "not enough" just as bad as the problems that come with "too many".

I think that slightly less than 1 per season would qualify as few and far between.

When evaluating umpires, I see far too much let go that shouldn't be.

I believe we agree.
It was not my intention to come across as defensive. I have worked with plenty of umpires who can't tolerate their rule interp being questioned. esp Obstruct/Interfer.
They are abrupt/rude/unprofessional with the coaches and wonder why they can't get to the next level.

Steve M summed it up well
"Game management, appearance, showing that you've got skill & expertise, and what I'll call a 'command presence' all work together to keep the number of ejections low. But like the obscene, I'll know it when I see it - and I'll know how it's to be handled"

[Rachel]

I tossed a college coach last year. He thought that if his catcher pulled the pitch into the zone it should be a strike. He was trying to intimidate me into calling strikes for his pitcher. His pitcher threw so slow that if she would have thrown a strike the other team would have crushed it. ASA ball - I have thrown 2 in 15 years.

[booker227]

Mr. Crowder, if that remark was addressed to me, then I do taken offense to your remark. I've never ejected a coach who wasn't deserving of that ejection, and I do not take pride in those ejections. My ejections have all come after several attempts at calming the situations, but when faced with a coach who is attempting to take over the game by ranting,raving, and acting in a disrespecful and unprofessionl manner, and fans and parents who act in a offensive way to me, thus taking the spotlight from the players, then that coach or parent is gone is a second, and there is no second guessing, remorse or guilton my part. My field is for the players, not the coaches. The question was asked, and I answered it. Please don't read between the lines and come to your own conclusion as to what I wrote, because, your conclusion is wrong.

Respecfully

[Andy]

In my career (about 7 years), two coaches have elected to leave the game prior to its conclusion.

A rec ball coach didn't like my call and told everybody within about a half mile radius that it was "bull$hit".

An ASA coach at Western Nationals didn't like my partners call on a steal and informed me that "you guys suck!"

[mcrowder]

Originally posted by booker227
Mr. Crowder, if that remark was addressed to me, then I do taken offense to your remark. I've never ejected a coach who wasn't deserving of that ejection, and I do not take pride in those ejections. My ejections have all come after several attempts at calming the situations, but when faced with a coach who is attempting to take over the game by ranting,raving, and acting in a disrespecful and unprofessionl manner, and fans and parents who act in a offensive way to me, thus taking the spotlight from the players, then that coach or parent is gone is a second, and there is no second guessing, remorse or guilton my part. My field is for the players, not the coaches. The question was asked, and I answered it. Please don't read between the lines and come to your own conclusion as to what I wrote, because, your conclusion is wrong.

Respecfully

Wow, whoever has the Mr. Defensive plaque needs to send it to booker. Good grief.

No, I was not referring to you AT ALL. In fact, the majority of my comments were about a poster saying he was proud to say he hadn't ejected ANYONE in softball, and my opinion that in all likelihood that probably meant he had let too much go. Whether I am right or wrong on that is indeterminate, as I don't know the guy, and only suspected that this MAY be the case - he may just have coaches that "get it" in his area more than most.

Booker - I didn't even read your friggin post until after you posted this lambasting me. I didn't "read between the lines", as I'd not even read the lines themselves. I didn't draw any conclusions, false or otherwise, from my having not read your post.

PS - even now AFTER reading your post, I fail to see how my post could possibly have been misconstrued as being directed at you. Your post is the OPPOSITE of what I was referring to. I eagerly (and perhaps infinitely) await your retraction or apology.

PPS - tell Carly Simon I said hi.

[OhioASADistrict1Commish]

........and if he doesn't apologize, TOSS HIM!!!!!!!!!!

just adding a little humor here.....

[Skahtboi]

Originally posted by OhioASADistrict1Commish


just adding a little humor here.....

I think that the humor had already been added. Look below:

Originally posted by mcrowder

PPS - tell Carly Simon I said hi.

[SRW]

Three ejections in three years for Slowpitch games. None for FP games.

One of the ejections resulted in a forfeit. He wouldn't leave the park.

[bkbjones]

Let's see...the ol' ejection list...this is for the Seattle area only.

1. My very first school ball game as part of the Seattle association. Girl gets backward K for third out. Coach is walking from 3B coaching box to the dugout. Stops in the circle and say loud enough for all in the park to hear, "That call was f'n ridiculous." He gets to go warm up the bus.

And of course next thing I hear from a couple peers, "Why did you run a coach in a JV game? blah blah blah..." After I explained, everything was ok.

2. another girl gets a backward K for third out. she turns and asks, "Are you f'n kidding me." I don't say a word to her, but catcher tells her to swing the bat next time. Intercept coach on the way across the field and ask her if she has a replacement for #5. She says yes and asks why. I tell her why, tell her 5 is ejected, she gives me the sub. Nextinning coach comes out laughing. "I asked her if she cursed the umpire," coach says. "She tells me no. I asked her what she told you, and she tells me verbatim what you told me. I told her, 'That word is a curse word.' She gives me this dumb, vacant stare."

3. A wonderful obstruction call on an errant throw at third. Coach comes out, "You're a bullspit umpire and that was a bullspit call." Coach has to miss the rest of a great game, her team came back, game went snowman, and coach missed the whole thing.

IMHO, I probably haven't extended the invitation to enough people to leave the premises, and I think that's true for many others. Sometimes we (me included)are far too tolerant. I think I have good game management skills, and so do many others, but game management CAN include ejections (and disqualifications in NFHS). Just because you jack someone when they have earned it doesn't make one a bad umpire.

[heyblue]

Here are my totals:

ASA (13 years) 10 coaches, 3 fans, 2 players
NFHS (2 years) 0 ejections, 0 restriction
NCAA (1st year) 0

Most of the coaches I helped exit the game were between years 2-4. (yes, I was a little trigger happy back then). The three fans became beligerant after a call at home plate that didn't go their way, and yes, the coach went with them. The two players were ejected in the same game for the same thing: deliberately crashing into the catcher. It was an easy call. The second ejection caused a forfeit as there were no other subs.

[bkbjones]

Forgot about my fan. It was at a Western National. Fan was unhappy about a call my partner made on the bases. He says, "I know you guys came here in that gray car (my umpmobile). I'll be waiting for you after the game." He went away via the UIC's golf cart and was dis-invited from remainder of tournament. 'Twas a shame, cuz his daughter's team fought through the loser's bracket and got to the finals.

Thank God for UIC's (in this case, Dan Duffy) who will support their umpires 100%.

[SRW]

Originally posted by bkbjones
Forgot about my fan. It was at a Western National. Fan was unhappy about a call my partner made on the bases. He says, "I know you guys came here in that gray car (my umpmobile). I'll be waiting for you after the game." He went away via the UIC's golf cart and was dis-invited from remainder of tournament. 'Twas a shame, cuz his daughter's team fought through the loser's bracket and got to the finals.

Thank God for UIC's (in this case, Dan Duffy) who will support their umpires 100%.

You forgot about the USC you and I had last year for the runner crashing into F2....wasn't a true "ejection" per se, but she did finish the game on the bench.

[baldgriff]

I primarily do Mens Slow Pitch in Park leagues. Tossing the coach usually doesnt happen to often. However, I can usually count on an a couple ejections each year for players.

The one I remember the most was an ejection after the very first pitch of the game. Batter watches a real good pitch come through his strike zone and it lands about an inch off the outside of the plate. I call it a strike, because it came through his strike zone. He puts the ball in the mark and says "See where it landed?" I said "Sir, it crossed the plate through your strike zone. Lets play." Pitcher is getting ready to pitch the ball and the batter looks back at me and says "What a F'd up call that was." I immediately called TIME! and asked him to vacate the premises. Coach comes out and ask what happened. I told him and the coach looks at his teammate and tells him to go home.

I dont know about everyone else, but I just dont put up with a lot of crap. Doing Adult Rec leagues seems a bit different than having the "organized" Manager in HS and college situation. Many of the players try to get away with a lot of stuff and I just wont let them.

I usually toss 3 to 4 players each year. The most common reason is because they cant leave the beer in the cooler until the game is done.