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  #16 (permalink)  
Old Thu Mar 16, 2006, 08:17pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by mcrowder
No offense meant here, but I don't think there should be any pride involved in saying none, just as there shouldn't be for saying 500. Game management is one thing, but if you're considering yourself "proud to say none", I suspect you've not done so when it was appropriate, and made some other umpire's life worse.

I've presided over the ejection of 11 coaches - about 1 per year.
Interesting how you can suspect without knowing anything about me. Or my experience level.

For the record, I won't let any coach question my integrity, use profanity, insult me etc, etc.

I have canned a few baseball coaches. Since this is a softball forum I didn't count them. Same goes for players.

I say "proud to say none" because I have managed the game well enough not to have use the last resort and eject a softball coach... yet.
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  #17 (permalink)  
Old Thu Mar 16, 2006, 08:25pm
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Re: My 2 cents

Quote:
Originally posted by Chess Ref
1 cent for each year I have been umpiring.

I know that I have just started out in all this stuff but I am now laying the groundwork for how i am going to deal with coaches.

I strongly agree with mcrowder on this......

I don't disagree with either of you, my point is if you handle situations properly and practice preventive officating, ejections should be few and far between.

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  #18 (permalink)  
Old Thu Mar 16, 2006, 08:46pm
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OK, on the amended question of "Or maybe, "how coaches have you shown the door to"?"

Let's see - in the last 5 years - which covers over 1400 games of fast pitch
College - 1 - and he was fired at year's end, partly for his repeated run ins with umpires.
scholastic ball - none, with 1 restriction
summer ball - 5

I agree with JFA's statement that "ejections should be few and far between."

Game management, appearance, showing that you've got skill & expertise, and what I'll call a 'command presence' all work together to keep the number of ejections low. But like the obscene, I'll know it when I see it - and I'll know how it's to be handled.

Addition - I forgot to say that I've effectively used the old FU call 3 or 4 times in that time span - and that probably save the ejection number from being higher.


[Edited by Steve M on Mar 16th, 2006 at 09:11 PM]
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old Fri Mar 17, 2006, 06:26am
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A little late but...

Stern warning for me means that for most of the game I just smile at stupid things coaches do. When something starts to get edgey the smile comes off, I talk to the coach face to face and say the funs over.

I must admit that I think I've been lucky. There's been many a time that I watched as a spectator and saw things that went way over the line. And of course the perspective from the stands is different from the field
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old Fri Mar 17, 2006, 07:45am
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Thank you so much for explaining.
(Thanks to Mike, also! )

Ciao
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old Fri Mar 17, 2006, 08:26am
softball_junky
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In 15 years of NFHS and ASA I have asked two coaches to leave the field, both in ASA games. I tell them in pre-game if the head coach has a question and approaches us properly we don’t mine talking. I don’t argue with coaches. I let them vent and when they are finished I give them an answer. At that point the discussion is over and I tell them “Okay coach lets play ball” and walk away. The two I asked to leave didn’t understand the discussion was over.
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old Fri Mar 17, 2006, 08:49am
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Quote:
Originally posted by JFA67
Quote:
Originally posted by mcrowder
No offense meant here, but I don't think there should be any pride involved in saying none, just as there shouldn't be for saying 500. Game management is one thing, but if you're considering yourself "proud to say none", I suspect you've not done so when it was appropriate, and made some other umpire's life worse.

I've presided over the ejection of 11 coaches - about 1 per year.
Interesting how you can suspect without knowing anything about me. Or my experience level.
Well, I used the word "suspect" SPECIFICALLY because I don't know you. How else should I have phrased this, Mr. Sensitive? And I don't believe I said a single word about your experience level. There's a reason I said "No offense intended" as well, but some people can't accept even the mildest difference of opinion without getting defensive.

Quote:
For the record, I won't let any coach question my integrity, use profanity, insult me etc, etc.

I have canned a few baseball coaches. Since this is a softball forum I didn't count them. Same goes for players.

I say "proud to say none" because I have managed the game well enough not to have use the last resort and eject a softball coach... yet.
You're kind of making my point for me.

If an umpire feels somehow that his game management skills would take a hit if they had to resort to an ejection, it's entirely likely that umpire has let things go that warrant an ejection. If someone has ejected more than 3-4 per year, then yeah - he probably has some game management issues. But I'd actually say the same about someone who has ejected less than 1 every couple of years.

Mind you, I'm not an OOO or a guy who revels in his ejections. I'm just saying that regardless of your level of experience, if you've not ejected a guy at all, you've either been VERY lucky, or you've let stuff go that you shouldn't have. JMHO
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old Fri Mar 17, 2006, 08:53am
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Re: Re: My 2 cents

Quote:
Originally posted by JFA67
Quote:
Originally posted by Chess Ref
1 cent for each year I have been umpiring.

I know that I have just started out in all this stuff but I am now laying the groundwork for how i am going to deal with coaches.

I strongly agree with mcrowder on this......

I don't disagree with either of you, my point is if you handle situations properly and practice preventive officating, ejections should be few and far between.

I guess I'm just trying to say there's a middle ground, and that there are problems with "not enough" just as bad as the problems that come with "too many".

I think that slightly less than 1 per season would qualify as few and far between.

When evaluating umpires, I see far too much let go that shouldn't be.
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old Fri Mar 17, 2006, 09:08am
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Re: Re: Re: My 2 cents

Quote:
Originally posted by mcrowder
Quote:
Originally posted by JFA67
Quote:
Originally posted by Chess Ref
1 cent for each year I have been umpiring.

I know that I have just started out in all this stuff but I am now laying the groundwork for how i am going to deal with coaches.

I strongly agree with mcrowder on this......

I don't disagree with either of you, my point is if you handle situations properly and practice preventive officating, ejections should be few and far between.

I guess I'm just trying to say there's a middle ground, and that there are problems with "not enough" just as bad as the problems that come with "too many".

I think that slightly less than 1 per season would qualify as few and far between.

When evaluating umpires, I see far too much let go that shouldn't be.
I believe we agree.
It was not my intention to come across as defensive. I have worked with plenty of umpires who can't tolerate their rule interp being questioned. esp Obstruct/Interfer.
They are abrupt/rude/unprofessional with the coaches and wonder why they can't get to the next level.

Steve M summed it up well
"Game management, appearance, showing that you've got skill & expertise, and what I'll call a 'command presence' all work together to keep the number of ejections low. But like the obscene, I'll know it when I see it - and I'll know how it's to be handled"

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  #25 (permalink)  
Old Fri Mar 17, 2006, 09:37am
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I tossed a college coach last year. He thought that if his catcher pulled the pitch into the zone it should be a strike. He was trying to intimidate me into calling strikes for his pitcher. His pitcher threw so slow that if she would have thrown a strike the other team would have crushed it. ASA ball - I have thrown 2 in 15 years.
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old Fri Mar 17, 2006, 09:41am
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Mr. Crowder, if that remark was addressed to me, then I do taken offense to your remark. I've never ejected a coach who wasn't deserving of that ejection, and I do not take pride in those ejections. My ejections have all come after several attempts at calming the situations, but when faced with a coach who is attempting to take over the game by ranting,raving, and acting in a disrespecful and unprofessionl manner, and fans and parents who act in a offensive way to me, thus taking the spotlight from the players, then that coach or parent is gone is a second, and there is no second guessing, remorse or guilton my part. My field is for the players, not the coaches. The question was asked, and I answered it. Please don't read between the lines and come to your own conclusion as to what I wrote, because, your conclusion is wrong.

Respecfully
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old Fri Mar 17, 2006, 11:13am
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In my career (about 7 years), two coaches have elected to leave the game prior to its conclusion.

A rec ball coach didn't like my call and told everybody within about a half mile radius that it was "bull$hit".

An ASA coach at Western Nationals didn't like my partners call on a steal and informed me that "you guys suck!"
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old Fri Mar 17, 2006, 11:37am
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Quote:
Originally posted by booker227
Mr. Crowder, if that remark was addressed to me, then I do taken offense to your remark. I've never ejected a coach who wasn't deserving of that ejection, and I do not take pride in those ejections. My ejections have all come after several attempts at calming the situations, but when faced with a coach who is attempting to take over the game by ranting,raving, and acting in a disrespecful and unprofessionl manner, and fans and parents who act in a offensive way to me, thus taking the spotlight from the players, then that coach or parent is gone is a second, and there is no second guessing, remorse or guilton my part. My field is for the players, not the coaches. The question was asked, and I answered it. Please don't read between the lines and come to your own conclusion as to what I wrote, because, your conclusion is wrong.

Respecfully
Wow, whoever has the Mr. Defensive plaque needs to send it to booker. Good grief.

No, I was not referring to you AT ALL. In fact, the majority of my comments were about a poster saying he was proud to say he hadn't ejected ANYONE in softball, and my opinion that in all likelihood that probably meant he had let too much go. Whether I am right or wrong on that is indeterminate, as I don't know the guy, and only suspected that this MAY be the case - he may just have coaches that "get it" in his area more than most.

Booker - I didn't even read your friggin post until after you posted this lambasting me. I didn't "read between the lines", as I'd not even read the lines themselves. I didn't draw any conclusions, false or otherwise, from my having not read your post.

PS - even now AFTER reading your post, I fail to see how my post could possibly have been misconstrued as being directed at you. Your post is the OPPOSITE of what I was referring to. I eagerly (and perhaps infinitely) await your retraction or apology.

PPS - tell Carly Simon I said hi.
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old Fri Mar 17, 2006, 11:46am
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........and if he doesn't apologize, TOSS HIM!!!!!!!!!!

just adding a little humor here.....
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  #30 (permalink)  
Old Fri Mar 17, 2006, 12:00pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by OhioASADistrict1Commish


just adding a little humor here.....
I think that the humor had already been added. Look below:

Quote:
Originally posted by mcrowder

PPS - tell Carly Simon I said hi.


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