Ball on the batter?

[azbigdawg]

SRW.... I know u probably wont agree, but remember..its THEIR game.....it has NOTHING to do with you and you are irrelevant..WHY would you even consider this one? go back a couple of weeks and look at the post about the ll umpires telling kids they couldnt speak spanish..... dont insert yourself into the game. It makes life easier.

[bkbjones]

Originally posted by greymule
[B]

Not all rules are equal

While some points make sense, which rules are the less than equal ones? Definition of the strike zone? Batter is out when...? 7-2-c-3?

While I am not one to pick nits or look for trouble...to say some rules are "less equal" than others is (insert your favorite word/phrase here).

[TexBlue]

I have to agree with SRW on this. If the rule book doesn't want to apply this rule in certain instances, they need to spell it out. The rule book is black and white, with a few mistakes and poorly worded sections. While I understand all the comments about the intent of the rule, I can't win a protest with the intent. I have to enforce it with the rule itself. I'm probably not going to award the ball until the coach asks me about it in this situation, but, if he handles the question correctly, I'm going to have to enforce the rule, as worded in the book Since I don't have the "reasoning behind the rules" section in my Rule Book I have to go with what ASA did give me, which is a Rule Book and a Case Book. They spell it out on what happens in this instance. Until I get to be on the council changing rules, I need to stay with the rules that are currently written down in the 2005 Rule Book.

There's 1 more in your corner on this discussion, SRW.

[whiskers_ump]

Originally posted by bkbjones
[B]

While some points make sense, which rules are the less than equal ones? Definition of the strike zone? Batter is out when...? 7-2-c-3?

While I am not one to pick nits or look for trouble...to say some rules are "less equal" than others is (insert your favorite word/phrase here).

John,

Think that greymule meant that it is the intent and interpretation of the
rule, rather than rules being "less equal".

In you reference 7-2-c-3, it does not say batter is out if count is less than
3 strikes and enters the dugout. It does say the umpire may warn the player and may
if repeated offense occurs, call a strike. This was not stated in the originial
post. However, if in your game you wish to call someone out on two strikes, then
do so. Personally, I am bringing the batter back to complete his/her turn at
the plate.

[azbigdawg]

Texblue..if the other coach comes and argues..then you HAVE to..but if he doesnt......why do it? play on.....

[TexBlue]

Originally posted by azbigdawg
Texblue..if the other coach comes and argues..then you HAVE to..but if he doesnt......why do it? play on.....

Orininally posted by TexBlue. .......I'm probably not going to award the ball until the coach asks me about it in this situation, but, if he handles the question correctly, I'm going to have to enforce the rule, as worded in the book .........

Yeah, I gotta think I agree with you.

[Edited by TexBlue on Aug 22nd, 2005 at 10:15 PM]

[Bernae]

I was on there as the base ump. The catcher has a habit of flipping it to 1st or 3rd after a foul ball. It actually speeds up the game. Don't think the plate ump would have called it but the coach was insistant and the UIC said call it a ball.

[TexBlue]

Originally posted by Bernae
......and the UIC said call it a ball.

I'm a little narrow minded here, granted, but if the UIC wants a ball called, he needs to come out and take my place. If he/she wants to talk to me after the game about it, I'll do whatever he/she wants in this instance. But, if they put me on the field, and trusted me to call a fair game, correctly, let me do it. I don't need some UIC talking to me through the fence about my game. Until it's protested.

[SRW]

Originally posted by azbigdawg
SRW.... I know u probably wont agree, but remember..its THEIR game.....it has NOTHING to do with you and you are irrelevant..WHY would you even consider this one? go back a couple of weeks and look at the post about the ll umpires telling kids they couldnt speak spanish..... dont insert yourself into the game. It makes life easier.

Wait a minute here.

Yes, it's THEIR game.
It's THEIR rules.
I am hired to enforce THEIR rules for THEIR game.
THEY pay me to do that.
If THEY don't wamt me to enforce THEIR rules as written, then THEY need to remove the rule from THEIR rule book.

And this sitch would be an example of calling THEIR rules as THEY wrote them. Telling a kid s/he can't speak spanish on the field doesn't compare to this; THEY don't have a rule about speaking other languages.

And if my job was to make MY life easier, then why would I even show up to officiate THEIR game?

[SRW]

Originally posted by azbigdawg
Texblue..if the other coach comes and argues..then you HAVE to..but if he doesnt......why do it? play on.....

Why call strikes then, just let the coach argue every pitch until he gets the strikeout.

Or wait until the offensive coach argues for a ball, then walk the batter.

I can't believe that your idea of officiating is to let the coaches argue the call, THEN reverse your call (or call the rule that's written in THEIR book)... that's just unbelieveable.

Why do it? Why even show up? Blue like this (those just there to make the players happy and collect their paycheck) give those of us (who actually call a true game and aren't afraid of calling a ball on the throw to F5, or aren't afraid to call OBS on the game-winning close-throw tag-out-at-the-plate when it happens) a bad name.

[SRW]

Originally posted by whiskers_ump
However, if in your game ...

As azbigdawg so eloquently put it:

Originally posted by azbigdawg
its THEIR game.....it has NOTHING to do with you and you are irrelevant

[azbigdawg]

LIke I said SRW..you wouldnt agree..your first comments told me that......its overofficiating.....say what you what about "umpires like me".....and Ill say what I want about "umpires like you"...gawd.....

[whiskers_ump]

Originally posted by Bernae
I was on there as the base ump. The catcher has a habit of flipping it to 1st or 3rd after a foul ball. It actually speeds up the game. Don't think the plate ump would have called it but the coach was insistant and the UIC said call it a ball.

Welcome to the board Bernae, and thank you for the input.

Was there a protest? Rachel's post mentioned nothing about a protest.

At what point did the UIC get involved?

Oooops, did not see your post Rick, however, would still like to know how
UIC got involved.



[Edited by whiskers_ump on Aug 23rd, 2005 at 02:41 AM]

[debeau]

Personally I dont like the rule but it is their and should be applied .
If I dont call it a ball and the players and coach brings it up then I look like I dont know the rules and this is the beginning of doubt in players and coaches minds so they start to question more .
Lets be honest call it once and it wont happen again .
Ironically now in NZ the catcher leaves the ball 3rd base picks it up and it can now be thrown around , just to get around the rule .
For me get rid of the rule but while its there apply it .

[tcannizzo]

Originally posted by SRW

Doncha just love these casebook examples that like never happen? There are many more relevant and frequent situations.

Change F2 to F7 and tell me the call.