Ball on the batter?

[Rachel]

No one on base, foul ball back to the screen. Catcher misses the ball and falls down, picks up the ball and flips it to the third baseman. The third baseman throws it to the pitcher. Do we have an additional ball on the batter?

[azbigdawg]

Dont think so.... but I could be wrong

[Edited by azbigdawg on Aug 22nd, 2005 at 03:43 AM]

[chuck chopper]

This is how WE become the problem, and as it has been said before "trouble will find its way to us, do not go looking for it"

[whiskers_ump]

Rachel,

Good question. However, I would agree with azbigdawg in this situtation. Just
part of the game. I see where you are coming from though. I am not sure
I would apply Rule 6 Section 7 B. in this case. Especially since I am
looking for "strikes" not "balls".

[Rachel]

I am working a men's national tournament at this time and this actually happened yesterday. The only reason it was called was because the coach brought it up.

That is the difference between calling the intent of the rule and the letter of the rule.

I would think that an over zealous umpire that calls that is just digging for buggars.

[MNBlue]

Rachel,

It probably shouldn't matter (I wouldn't go looking for trouble anyway), but if it were a past ball instead of a foul ball, I would have a ball - if extremely pressed by a coach. I'm pretty confident I could sell a no call on the foul ball - especially since the ball is dead when it became foul, and on the past ball, it hasn't become dead yet. Billy P used to always say "...survival is more important than being right."

[SRW]

The bases are empty and B1 has a count of 0-ball, 1-strike count. On the next pitch, B1 hits a foul ball that F2 retrieves and throws to F5. RULING: A ball is awarded to B1, resulting in a 1-ball, 2-strike count. (6F-7B, 7-5F)

[CelticNHBlue]

Nice research SRW.

I still have to agree with the previous assessment for the intent of this rule. As I recall, the rule was inserted to eliminate the delay of game issues of the defense passing the ball around the infield with no reason after every pitch. Based on the limited information provided, it sounds like the third baseman was on his way to the plate to either fetch the loose ball or help up his embarassed clumsy catcher. In these cases, he assisting to speed up the game and I will give him an at-a-boy. Or, since the catcher fell down, maybe he flipped it to the pitcher, but it was an erant flip, after all, he was on his a$$ at the time. JMO.

[IRISHMAFIA]

I agree. Rachel, you used the term "flipped" the ball. That, as opposed to "threw" the ball gives me a visual that F5 was nearby or in the path of a throw where a relay makes sense. If so, the players were just trying to get things moving.

Sorry, coach, you batter is going to need to earn that one.

[SRW]

Originally posted by IRISHMAFIA
I agree. Rachel, you used the term "flipped" the ball. That, as opposed to "threw" the ball gives me a visual that F5 was nearby or in the path of a throw where a relay makes sense. If so, the players were just trying to get things moving.

Sorry, coach, you batter is going to need to earn that one.

Are we now in the business of determining a "flip" and a "throw"? What about a "toss"? No, we're not.

There was no relay - no one's on base. If there was someone on base, the rule wouldn't apply anyway.

The rule's pretty clear... award the ball. Defense screwed up.

[azbigdawg]

I say thre would be situations where it would be counterproductive to do so.... if the catchers is tossing the to 3b who charges the bunt so she can get herself together, get her mask back on, etc..no way in hell Im calling it..if the toss is to 3b who had nothing to do with the play and is standing by 3b...then I might have a different issue...and YES I CAN pick and choose when to apply this rule

[greymule]

I also pick and choose when to apply the rule. I would never call a ball in the following cases:

1. F2 and F5 chase a foul pop in front of the 3B dugout. F2 falls down and can't hold the ball. From a sitting position, F2 drops the ball into F5's glove. Throw? Toss? Flip? Whatever it is, I'm not calling a ball.

2. With 2 strikes, the batter swings and ticks the ball. F2 scoops it, BR starts to run to 1B, and F2 throws to 1B.

3. With a 2-2 count, the batter checks her swing and starts to run to 1B. F2 scoops the ball and throws to 1B while the PU is asking, "Did she go?" The BU answers, "No," so the pitch is a ball.

Perhaps the rule should be reworded to include "unnecessarily delays the game" or something like that. After all, we are empowered to call a strike if the batter leaves the box between pitches, but the book advises that we use judgment. I don't know what the rest of you do, but I simply remind the batters to stay in the box, and that has always taken care of the situation.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally posted by SRW


Are we now in the business of determining a "flip" and a "throw"? What about a "toss"? No, we're not.

No, it's up to Rachel to tell us, she was there.

There was no relay - no one's on base. If there was someone on base, the rule wouldn't apply anyway.

So, you were there?

The rule's pretty clear... award the ball. Defense screwed up.

Without knowing all the particulars, I would probably consider this to be overofficious.

[SRW]

Originally posted by IRISHMAFIA

No, it's up to Rachel to tell us, she was there.

Correct... but what does it matter? Throw or toss, it didn't go back to F1.
---

Originally posted by IRISHMAFIA

So, you were there?

Her original post said "no one on base". I took the term "relay" to mean that F2 was throwing to another infielder for an attempted play on a runner.
---

Originally posted by IRISHMAFIA

Without knowing all the particulars, I would probably consider this to be overofficious.

Enforcing rule 6F-7B or 7-5F is overofficious? Interesting. Perhaps enforcing [insert any other ASA Rule here] is overofficious too?

[greymule]

Perhaps enforcing [insert any other ASA Rule here] is overofficious too?

Not all rules are equal, and nobody expects the umpire to pick every nit on the field. At some point the spirit of the rule comes into play.

Batter singles to the outfield and takes her turn around 1B. The ball goes to the pitcher in the circle, and the runner stops and returns immediately to 1B. With play stopped and the next batter entering the box, the runner on 1B positions herself to leave with the release. You as BU notice that as she is placing her foot on the 2B side of the bag, for a half second there's an inch of space between her foot and the base. You bang her out for violating the look-back rule.

That's correct according to the rule book, but it is not good umpiring. It's overofficiating, using bad judgment, whatever you want to call it.