Slap or Bunt??????

[slowballbaker]

Just as I began to brag on the umpires in the Series on calling slapper out for bunting, they go and do just the opposite tonight...

Enough is Enough..... What slappers are doing in today's game is what I call a "cheating bunt." In this case slappers should never be called out for bunting....UCLA rallied in the 6th on this very call tonight, with two strikes the slapper bunted at the ball and hit it foul...(ruled a foul ball) and next pitch she bunted again for a hit...Could have been the difference in the game...

Most umpires will say "if the bat is moving through the zone then it is a slap" of "if the wrist breaks it is a slap". Bull.. All running slapper are moving the bat through the zone, even if the bat is stationary.

Watch UCLA batters close..This is what they do...They give the impression that it is a swing...
The batter will be in a normal stands and choked up on the bat slightly..As she crosses over she will then drop the bat down the hands a couple more inches and then take a half swing until the bat is in the strike zone. At this time she will stop the swing and drag the bat through the zone while still running out of the box...(very very very similar to what a right handed batter would do if they were drag bunting)...

Rule needs to be changed...to this...
1) For it to be called a slap, the bat or swing must continue on through the ball after contact or after a miss...

If not we will continue to see umpires call this poorly..
Slappers and coaches have found a way to beat the system.
If not changed soon, we will continue to see more and more of what I call the "cheating bunt"...

What does everyone else think????

[Andy]

I think that FP softball at the highest levels is a pitcher dominated game. Coaches and players have found a technique within the rules (the slap) to try to generate some offense.

[mcrowder]

"If now we will continue to see umpires call this poorly."

Change your word from poorly to correctly, and we agree.

A batter swinging (slapping) the way you describe can hit the ball out of the infield. Why do you want this to be a bunt attempt? I don't understand the motivation.

The reason for the rule that makes a bunted foul a strike is so that batters can't set up like a bunt, continually bunt every strike foul, and wait for 4 bad pitches to draw a walk.

The batters you describe are making legitimate attempts to get on base. I completely don't see why you are motivated to call this an out, and why it irks you so to see umpires calling this correctly and by the book.

[SRW]

I saw this play too. I would have ruled a slap. Foul ball, try again.

I think some umps don't like the current rule for numerous reasons:

1) because they can't tell the difference
2) because they don't know the difference
3) because they won't take the time to learn the difference
4) because they focus on the pitch too much and don't pay enough attention to the batter
5) all of the above

[slowballbaker]

Very good answers..I see your reasons...

Question though..If a right handed batter tried the same slap/bunt from the right side of the plate...how many times who umpires call them out on the foul 2nd strike...

I been playing ball for 30 years and been coaching slap hitters over 10 years...Trust me, I know what it takes to develop and make a slapper hitter..Thus I also know the rules..

The rules of baseball/softball were written many years ago..
I feel if your are giong to have rules then you need to play by the rules...

Look at baseball: rarely do you see questionable calls..Only ball and strikes, and safe and outs...Why has baseball and GOLF been so strong of a sport, it is because they play and abide by the rules of the game...

Now look at softball: Every game you have questionable calls: From leaping, crow hopping, are you in the circle with runners on base attempting to take the next base, batter running out of the box, a slap or a bunt, oh my!!! the new DP flex rule what a joke for H.S. ball, being in the 3 foot running lane(always called differently)I remember when a catcher could wear a skull helmet(the good on days, no more blocking bases, face masks on helmets that most player hate, recertify the bats, balls, helmets, mask, gloves, boy oh boy the list goes on and on...I remember the good ole days when you could show up and play a game of softball..Not now...Can you just think of what the rules are going to be like 10 years from now...I can..

Pitchers wearing face guards.
All defensive players wearing heart guards.
All batters must wear a full catching gear when they bat.
No base running we are now playing a ghost runner..
Don't laugh look how much they have changed it in the past 10 years....

What does everyone else think??????

[CecilOne]

Part of the criteria (in my mind) for bunt vs. hit is my sense of whether the bat head is moving faster/further than the hands when it crosses the plate (as in a full swing) or if the hands and bat head are aligned and
- move forward together or
- set before the ball arrives and stop.

[SRW]

http://spysoftball.com/rule_book.htm

THE RULE BOOK

Readers who were at the game as well as those who watched on ESPN offered divergent rules on bunting vs slapping. As reported in SPY, there were different views in the press box as well. On review, I thought Tara Henry swung, ergo, a foul ball.

Section 19. Bunt: A legally batted ball not swung at but intentionally tapped with the bat.

Section 20. Bunt Attempt: Any non-swinging movement of the bat intended to tapthe ball into play. Holding the bat in the strike zone is considered a bunt attempt. In order to take a pitch, the bat must be withdrawn--pulled backward and away from the ball.

Section 103. Slap Hit: A batted ball that has been struck with a short, chopping motion rather than with a full swing. The two most common types of slap hits are:

a. Those in which the battere takes her stance as if to bunt but then either drives the ball into the ground with a quick, short swing or punches it overe the infield. b. Those in which the btter takes running steps (within the batters box) toward the pitcheer before making contact with the pitch.

Rule 11.e. At the moment of bat-ball contact, the batter may not contact the pitch when any part of the foot is touching home plate, even though she may be touching the lines of the batter's box. In addition, the batter may not contact the pitch when an entire foot is touching the ground completely outside the lines of the batter's box.

Section 17. An illegally batted ball occurs when the batter contacts the pitch and (a) either one or both of the batter's feet are in contact with the ground entirely outside the lines of the batter's box.

Hence, watch the very good slappers take an almost ostrich-like stance at the point of contact -- one foot in the air. In effect, the NCAA rule book leaves it to the umpire to decide whether the batter attempted to bunt or slap.

[FUBLUE]

1. Just because you've played for 30 years and coached for 10 doesn't mean you know the rules.

2. Softball AIN'T Baseball...anyone who compares the two is an idiot.

3. Slapping is slapping, it's an attempt to hit the ball (as opposed to letting the ball hit the bat).

4. Swing through? Pardon my language, but what the hell are you talking about? If I'm trying to push an outside pitch to right field, am I to fully swing through? Guess in your world I bunted.

5. DP/Flex rule is great unless you don't know how it use it...then you're just stupid for not knowing how to use the rule to your advantage.

6. Yeah, in baseball no one every flinches during the hesitation, or misses second turning the double play, or umpires never call the just above the belt pitch a ball, or balks and it's never called, throwing at batters on purpose, or just about anything you can think of...yeah, baseball's perfect

7. Of players I know who wear facemasks...many have been wearing for years...they love it.

8. Skull caps were hated by many catchers in my area...they love the light-weight hockey masks with ventilation.

9. You never could obstruct a runner (i.e. block a base) without the ball...just no one ever called it...that's why organizations took out "about to receive" so that umpires would have the guts to call obstruction...but no one did...so they had to clarify what having the ball is (seems pretty obvious to me).

10. DO I need to say anything else?

[slowballbaker]

Good post FUBLUE...

But who said anything about a full swing????Better read it again...

[FUBLUE]

If I'm pushing a ball to right field, I'm almost going to stop my swing, right? Not partially, or 1/2 way, or 66.38576994% swing through right? Must have been a bunt!

[tcannizzo]

Originally posted by FUBLUE
If I'm pushing a ball to right field, I'm almost going to stop my swing, right? Not partially, or 1/2 way, or 66.38576994% swing through right? Must have been a bunt!

Ummmm, well not exactly...

In teaching a RHB to hit to RF, a half-swing is not the mechanics at the upper levels.

Rather:
1. Look for an outside pitch.
2. Delay the swing to move the point of contact towards the back foot
3. Hit the "inside half" of the ball.

The preferable result is a hard grounder or a line drive, rather than a "flare" or a slow dribbler. And with these mechanics, you take your full swing.

[FUBLUE]

Originally posted by tcannizzo

Ummmm, well not exactly...

In teaching a RHB to hit to RF, a half-swing is not the mechanics at the upper levels.

Rather:
1. Look for an outside pitch.
2. Delay the swing to move the point of contact towards the back foot
3. Hit the "inside half" of the ball.

The preferable result is a hard grounder or a line drive, rather than a "flare" or a slow dribbler. And with these mechanics, you take your full swing.

Huh, weird, I taught a push hit and it worked extremely efficiently at an Upper level...just a different school of thought...must depend on the situation and what part of the country you're in.

[tcannizzo]

We should take this over to a hitting board. But if it works for you, cool.

[mcrowder]

Odd. When I play slow-pitch, I ALWAYS hit that flare to right field. Trying to land it as close to the line as possible, with as much spin as possible, right between F3 and F10. If I line-drove that ball, it would be a double at best. I hit triples CONSTANTLY like this and often get the ball to the fence (not the OF fence - the 1B-fence)... at least until F10 gets wise and moves up... then they get the linedrive past them, or if they shift on me, I'll pull a line drive right on the LF line.

[tcannizzo]

mcrowder,
What you write about SP (and BB) can be true due to field dimensions and position of fielders. My comments were more towards FP, although still apply well to SP.

Think about your swing with what you are saying. To impart that much "english" on the ball, you are not stopping the bat. You are slicing all the way through.

Stopping your swing is risky business too as it gets closer to violating SP hitting rules. Stopping your bat provides the PU the opportunity to judge whether you have bunted or not.

You pays your money, you takes your chances.