Strike or hit by pitch?

[ToledoCYOBlue]

This situation came up in a recent game at which I was an observer, and I couldn't find something specific in the rule book or case book to address it (doesn't mean it isn't there, I just couldn't find it). NFHS rules were in play for this game.

1-2 count, no runners on base. Pitch came in behind the batter...it grazed her back, struck the bat (still in her hand), and landed in foul territory. Batter made a legitimate attempt to avoid being hit by the pitch.

The plate umpire called a strike. The logic here was clearly that, if she batted the ball, she must have, by definition, swung at the ball. And of course, if a player swings at a pitch that strikes her or any part of her uniform, a strike is called. In this case, strike three, and the batter was called out.

The alternative logic could have been to call a HBP, ruling that the batter did NOT swing at the pitch. Confusion abounded, offensive coach got very upset, etc.

My gut feel is that the umpire's ruling was correct, but I'm hoping to get some feedback from someone more seasoned.

Thanks in advance.

Charlie

[mo99]

I could not imagine the batter would swing at a pitch behind her back.If the ball hit her first and then the bat we have a HBP.If the ball hit the bat first while attempting to get out of the way we have a foul ball.It sounds like a play I would have to see in order to correctly evaluate.

Jeff
NCAA Umpire
NFHS cUmpire
ASA Umpire

[DNTXUM P]

1-2 count, no runners on base. Pitch came in behind the batter...it grazed her back, struck the bat (still in her hand), and landed in foul territory. Batter made a legitimate attempt to avoid being hit by the pitch.


The big question is in which order did the ball hitting the batter and hitting the bat occur.
1) If the batter was hit first, you have a dead ball, therefore not possible to have a hit bat because the ball is already dead. If you then rule that she did attempt to get out of the way of the ball, you award her first base. If you rule that she did not attempt to get out of the way, it is still a ball on the batter and she stays at the plate.

2) If the ball hit the bat before it hit the batter, you have a foul ball.

I cannot fathom anyone ruling that she swung at the pitch when it went behing her, but I guess stranger things have happened, nevertheless, if it hit her bat first then contacted her, it would still be only a foul ball, then dead ball because it hit her while still in the box. (Similar to fouling off a ball, bouncing in the dirt and then striking the batter while still in the box.)

[mcrowder]

No, this could not have been right.

If the umpire saw that it hit the batter first, and she did not attempt to hit it (holding the bat back behind you is NOT an attempt to hit!), it's a HBP.

If the umpire saw that it hit the BAT first, and then hit the batter while still in the box, it's a foul ball.

It's only a dead-ball strike if it either was across the strikezone, or struck at (and not hit by the bat) and hit the batter.

[bethsdad]

With 2 strikes on this play if it did hit the bat first would that be strike 3 ? I know it's not really a bunt attempt but she wasn't swinging either. Brian

[streamdoc]

It's not a bunt attempt. As others have said, if it hit the bat first, it would be a foul ball, not strike 3. She doesn't have to swing for a foul ball to be called. For example, take the high inside pitch that somehow catches the knob of the bat as the batter is trying to raise her arms and bat out of the way. It's a foul ball.

[msrock1954]

Was watching WCWS last night, Michigan -vs- UCLA and almost this exact situation occurred. High inside pitch that grazed the bat and hitter immediately looks at the ump and says it grazed her forearm. Ump initially called it a strike as he apparently did not see it hit her and only heard the ball hit the bat. He went to his partner at 1rst base and he apparently saw enough to say it did hit her so she was awarded 1rst base. From what I saw on the replay it did NOT hit her, but with the ball moving that fast it's hard to tell so I can't figure out how the 1rst base ump could tell??

[DNTXUM P]

Was watching WCWS last night, Michigan -vs- UCLA and almost this exact situation occurred. High inside pitch that grazed the bat and hitter immediately looks at the ump and says it grazed her forearm. Ump initially called it a strike as he apparently did not see it hit her and only heard the ball hit the bat. He went to his partner at 1rst base and he apparently saw enough to say it did hit her so she was awarded 1rst base. From what I saw on the replay it did NOT hit her, but with the ball moving that fast it's hard to tell so I can't figure out how the 1rst base ump could tell??

I was watching also. The plate ump was going by sound since he was blocked out. It sounded like the bat rather than the arm. The replays showed the base umps got it right when they replayed the pitch on slow motion. Announcers even agreed with the call of HBP (I am surprised they even knew what was going on)

[whiskers_ump]

I agree that after watching replays and putting it in slow
mo, the BU got it right. Ball hit batter,
not bat.

[SRW]

I TiVo'd the game, backed up the slow-mo replay and slowed it down even more. If it hit anything, it hit her arm like they said. Originally I thought it caught the bat, but it didn't. Good call. Way to go for help.

I laughed when the defensive coach came out asking the PU "did you actually see it?" We've all been in that similar situation before...

[msrock1954]

I'm not being critical of thee officiating, as overall they are doing an excellent job!!! I'm still wondering what the BU saw that convinced him that it hit her? He certainly didn't hear it hit her, so he must have seen the balls trajectory deflect of something. Anyway's good job blue for getting it right!!!

[Dakota]

Originally posted by msrock1954
I'm not being critical of thee officiating,...

Thou callest what thine eyes seest!

[msrock1954]

Originally posted by Dakota

Thou callest what thine eyes seest!

Must have better than 20/20 vision to see that from 3rd base or 1rst base.

[SRW]

http://spysoftball.com/world_series_notes.htm

THE CONTROVERSY

Readers have asked for more detail on the two plays which resulted in two UCLA palyers reaching 1st – which started the Bruins’ five-run 6th inning.

Andrea Duran, leading off, claims she was struck by a pitch. But, home plate umpire Willie Newman said he didn’t see the hit. Newman ruled a foul ball, count 0-2. Bruin coach Sue Enquist asked Newman to consult with the other two umpires – 60 feet away. Newman reversed himself, and Duran was awarded 1st.

The next batter, slapper Tara Henry, fouled off an 0-2 pitch. This time, Michigan coach Carol Hutchins, who thought Henry had bunted and would be out on the third strike bunt rule, asked Newman for help – but this time Newman said he didn’t need any help – Henry in his opinion did not swing.

In the press box, where the play reviewed was reviewed on camera, several reporters thought Henry appeared to have “broken” her wrists, ie, she bunted rather than slapped. But, Newman’s view prevailed. Henry grounded to Grace Leutele at 3rd who bobbled the ball, and both runners were safe – and eventually scored.

Later, the UIC, Jeff Hansen, told some reporters the key variable in a bunt or swing call is whether a hitter “hinges” their wrist or has a swinging motion.

In the end it didn’t matter – except as one of the endless arguments about umpire calls.

It didn’t matter because Anjelica Selden and the UCLA defense were overwhelming. No Wolverine reached 2nd base.