Batting 10 in FP

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally posted by mcrowder

Originally posted by IRISHMAFIA
I was not referring to "protest" as in rule 9, but as in complaining about a ruling that didn't happen to sit well with them in spite of the fact that it was brought about due to the inability to manage their team.

I misunderstood you then, because the initial post mentioned that the offense PROTESTED (which seemed to be a rule 9 protest, since UIC was called over and the ruling on the field reviewed), and it seemed it was that action that you were disagreeing with when you said


[/B][/QUOTE]

You're correct. I wasn't even thinking about that, but let's take the next step based on a "protest" premise.

What misinterpretation of what rule are they protesting? It's obvious from the discussion here that there is no rule specific to this scenario.

[Antonella]

We discussed a lot about this among us (here in Italy)
and the best we were able to have is this...
(not pretending this is the SOLUTION and keeping clear in mind that ON the field and during a game you have not the possibility to have an 'academic debate'....).

Assume this is the line-up:
1
2
3
4
5
6
7 - DP
8
9
10 - DEFO

Let's say we will ignore all the mess happened before defensive coach go to the umpire to appeal.

No.9 ended the previous inning so that No.1 is the right batter now - but No.10-Defo goes at bat.
This is an UNREPORTED SUB. + ILLEGAL RE-ENTRY
(according to ISF Rule 1, Sec.37-e = Defo batting in a position different from the DP's one).

The right batter now is No.2 - but No.1 goes at bat.
This is (again) an UNREPORTED SUB. + ILLEGAL RE-ENTRY
(because No.1 was - illegally - substituted and
he/she is re-entring the game in an inappropriate position of the line-up).

Here comes the appeal from the coach!
Even if the coach is appealing only for BOO, the umpire should punish the unsportsmanlike conduct of the
offensive team (using ten batters all the game long, instead of nine...).

First: Ejection of the coach, Defo and No.1 (Illegal re-entry violation)
Second: because of the unreported sub. (we've got TWO but can apply the rule only on ONE) every action made by No.1
must be nullified and No.1 is also declared OUT - appeal made before the next pitch.

In the end we will have:
coach ejected
Defo ejected
No.1 ejected
No.1 out
Runner on 2nd must return on 1st... but WHO will be this runner???
Must be a member of the offensive team in the first spot of the line-up,
so the player who will enter the game must be a legal sub. for No.1.

Of course the offensive team now needs also a sub. for Defo (ejected), unless they wanna go on with 9 players...


Our season will start next April, 9th.
If you like you can take a look to italian softball here: http://www.fastpitch.it or http://www.baseball-softball.it

A.

[Dakota]

I don't consider an illegal player to be de facto unsportsmanlike conduct. Confusion is a better (more likely?) explanation of their batting 10, IMO.

Way of saying - I don't agree with the ejections.

[whiskers_ump]

Originally posted by Antonella


Our season will start next April, 9th.
If you like you can take a look to italian softball here: http://www.fastpitch.it or http://www.baseball-softball.it

Nice pictures on the site...BTW, I posted one on the
board under Legal Or Illegal.

[MA Softball Ump]

Originally posted by Dakota
Would it stand up to protest? BFOM.

What is "BFOM" please?

4WIW [="for what it's worth"], I side with Tom on the Flex is illegal sub for B-1, etc, and the result is only one player is at 2nd.

[Dakota]

Originally posted by MA Softball Ump
What is "BFOM" please?

Sorry... just a bit arcane. The literal translation is not for mixed company.

The expression, "beats me" = "I don't know".

Well, BFOM is an "extension" of that expression that means, "Beats the Fork Outta Me" - if you get word substutition.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally posted by MA Softball Ump

What is "BFOM" please?

4WIW [="for what it's worth"], I side with Tom on the Flex is illegal sub for B-1, etc, and the result is only one player is at 2nd.

Remember, this was ISF and in ISF the DEFO (not the FLEX) entering the BO for anyone other than the DP is considered an Illegal Reentry by rule. The penalty is that the manager is ejected along with the IR, but no one else (at least not by rule).

[Antonella]

You are right: ejections because of a rule (ISF Rules).
Nothing personal... ok?

The only reason I mention unsportsmanlike conduct is that we felt it was necessary to give that team
the maximum penalty possible BY RULE, regardless of the reason for they used ten batters instead of nine
(some of you said the coach was confused, it's all right - but even if a runner is confused and he/she is tagged out of base you should rule an out...)
Maximum penalty means umpire must give a penalty but a reasonable penalty, respecting 'the borders' of the rulebook...

I absolutely agree with the ones who stated a good preventative officiating could prevent these kind of situations.
But I do not agree with the ones who said there's a lack in the rulebook (not in the ISF rulebook).

A.

(Rome time: 10,45 am)

[NorthAlaUmp]

Originally posted by Ol Blue
This happened in an ASA State championship tournament, and I wasn't one of the umpires involved......really.

Top of the sixth inning lead off batter singles, next batter singles now runners on 1B and 2B. Before pitch to the third batter of the inning coach wants to appeal BOO.
This is were things start to go bad. The runner on second the leadoff batter of the inning is the FLEX. DP is in the lineup and had made the last out of the previous inning, also the FLEX had been batting the entire game without anyone noticing. This isn't BOO because the FLEX wasn't batting in any of the first nine positions she was batting 10th IMO. If you did go with BOO then she is ok because a pitch was thrown to the next batter who is now on first and the correct batter is at the plate. I would probably go with illegal batter because the Flex batted while the DP was still in the game, but can this be appealed after a pitch to the next batter?

Someone please help me w/ the difference here between ASA and NFHS. In NFHS, Flex hitting in any position except for DP = illegal sub. Called out if still at bat or on base and restricted to bench. Is this different in ASA? If not, then I'd have 2 outs, and bases empty, w/ batter listed 2nd in order at bat. (I'd rule that Flex (illegal sub) B'dOO for B1, then B1 batted for B2.) It appears from answers it must be different, but can anyone tell me how?

[Ol Blue]

NFHS covers this with 2-57 Art 2 a and b.
A pitch had been thrown to the next batter B1 who is now on first and B2 is in the box before a pitch thrown.
3-4 Art 2 c penalty says if discovered after pitch to next batter Play stands. if illegal sub on base she is called out and restricted to bench.
FED I would inforce Illegal sub as by rule this takes precedence over BOO (3.4 art 2b penalty) Remove R1 the FLEX from second call her out and restrict to bench, leave runner on first and have B2 step in and bat. I don't know if that is exactly right but thats what I would do. I don't have to worry about it for awhile because we play HS softball in the fall here in Ga.