What if ASA style

[oppool]

Here's one I thought of I am sure most of us will never see.

R1 on 3rd 1 out B4 hits a fly to left that in flight hits a small bird flying across the field the ball drops into F7 glove as R1 is crossing home and B4 reaches 1st F7 throw into 3rd where F5 steps on 3rd for R1 leaving early. Whats the call??

[Gulf Coast Blue]

I think that this play definitely falls into the infamous RULE 10 category........

The plate umpire shall have the authority to make decisions on any situations not specifically covered in the rules.

In this situation........if the bird was in fair territory......I would probably call it a dead ball and award all runners (and batter in this case) the base I thought they would have gotten had the ball not hit the bird.

If the ball hit the bird over foul territory.....dead ball....foul ball.

We have one ball park in our district that has a power line that travels from just beyond the 1st base dugout to Right/Center field......it is covered in the ground rules as a two base award if hit by a batted ball over fair territory and a foul ball if over foul territory.

If this happened at this park......I might just rule identically......all the coaches know this particular ground rule.

Interesting play.

Joel

[Roger Greene]

Joel,

I'll have to disagree with you this time.

NAPBL 4.19
"If a batted or thrown ball strikes a bird in flight or other animal on the playing field, consider the ball alive and in play the same as if it had not touched the bird or animinal. "

Field the rebound and play on!!!!!

Roger Greene
Member UT

[Roger Greene]

Oppol,

Please dont take offense, but your plays would be much easier to understand if you would use sentences and the standard runner designations.

R1 is the runner on first base, R2 the runner on second base , and R3 the runner on third. I know the Fed case books use the reverse with R1 being the runner who reached base first.

Which sentences ares clearer and more concise?:

R1 is on third, R2 is on second, and R3 is on first when B4 hits a fly ball to F9. R1 tags and scores, R3 leaves early.

R1, R2, and R3 when BR hits fly ball to F9. R3 tags and scores, R1 leaves early.

Keep posting. I've been missing softball discussions all winter.

Roger Greene,
Member UT

[Steve M]

This is a great example of a situation not covered by ASA's rules/interpretations, an umpire knowing what other sanctioning bodies have ruled, and making a decision based on that. It's a good reason to look into other sanctioning bodies.

On another note, Roger, I agree that it's far easier to visualize R1 starting at 1B, R2 on 2B... but the standard softball way of stating this is that R1 is the lead runner, R2 is the second runner on base, & R3 is starting on 1B. I have to stop & think each time - to see "which hat to wear".

[oppool]

Okay guys I believe this is the correct response as in ASA rule book under definition of a catch reads. A ball which strikes anything other than a defensive player while it is in flight is ruled the same as if it struck the ground. If I am correct everybody is safe live ball and next batter up. I know will probably never see this situation but if you didnt have league rule on those wires running over the field I believe this would also be the same under ASA.

P.S. Roger be patient with me I am new at this will try to state these goofy thing as clear as I can....Thanks

[Roger Greene]

Ok Steve,

Which should I (we) use on the softball boards? R3 on first is certainly harder to visulize than R1 isn't it?

Roger

[Steve M]

Roger,
I agree. Personally, I'd rather say that R1 is the guy on 1B. I really only said something 'cuz you told Don (OP) that it would be easier to understand if he used the standard of R1 on 1B R2 on 2B... - when he was using ASA's standard. He sounds a bit new to this world and I didn't want to have him confused by anything us old farts said.
Now, the board sez that you made your post at 5:48 am. I thought I kept some nasty hours - oncall all hours that I'm not in the office, even while on vacation. What kind of ugly hours are you working - you're a district justice or something like that, right?

Steve M

[IRISHMAFIA]

Steve,

ASA does indeed cover this play. Rule 8.2.C:

The Batter-runner is out...
When, after a fly ball is hit, the ball is then caught by a fielder before it touched the ground, any object or person other than a defensive player.

So, unless the bird is in the game and on the line-up card, it is ruled no-catch and all runners are safe.

Furthermore, ASA Casebook - 2001, Table of Contents (page ii) ABBREVIATION KEY:

N=Number

B(N) Batter
R1 Runner closest to home
R2 Succeeding Runner
R3 Runner on First Base (bases loaded)
S(N) Substitute
CR(N) Courtesy Runner
PC(N) Physically Challenged Player
F(N) Fielder by Position (See Rule 4)

If I am speaking ASA, which is 95% of the time, I will be using these designations.

[Steve M]

Thanks, Mike.
Oooooooooooops, forgot about 8.2.c

[Gulf Coast Blue]

One of our local associations uses a ground rule as I stated above for a power line that transverses the field.

I know that ASA gives a lot of leeway for local districts/association to modify rules. We modify a ton of them for the little kids. No IF etc.

Would this be a rule that would be covered by ground rules or should I bring up 8-2-c to this particular board?

Thanks in advance.

Joel

[IRISHMAFIA]

Joel,

A power line, tree branch, etc. are things that are basically things that are going to be there every game and apply only to those fields effected. They are usually put into place to make sure everyone rules in the same manner. Rule 8.2.C is an authoritive reference which would substantiate your ground rule as well as cover surprise visitors like birds, balls from another field, etc.

[Roger Greene]

So ASA considers animinals objects, but persons are not objects? (they were an additional classification in the rule quoted) Just a thought. I'm not going to argue that one but it is a bit questionable. We could get into a problem with how big an animinal we consider. How about the large moth in the night game?

I've only seen three times an animinal intefered with a game.
(1) The Lanier's pet buck (a six pointer that fall) jumping the fence and running acrose the infield during a play.

(2) A player's dog trying to chase the ball in the outfield after slipping through the gate.

(3) A diamond back rattler breaking up a double play by slithering out from under second base! (Runner and F6 both abandoned attempt to complete play at same time.)

Talk about third world plays!!!

Roger Greene,
Member UT

p.s. about time. I dont understant the time info. I made that post around 8am EST. I'm just in from a 20 hour shift.
(it would have been 24, except that I took 4 hours holiday to attend a baseball clinic)
RLG

[oppool]

Roger

Man I dont know where you call but that rattler thing would of thrown me for a loop. I know one thing I would tell my partner I've got the plate for rest of the night or we go home now!!

[Gulf Coast Blue]

During an AFA game that my oldest my playing was in a couple of years ago (she was F2)........before a pitch......our F5 started dancing and the BU stopped play.......no-one knew what was going on for a bit until the PU came out and they removed about a 3' Kingsnake from the playing field.

Everyone got a good kick out of it except for the 3rd Baseman.......she was shook up for a little bit.

Joel