asa ruling

[oppool]

Here's one that got me last year 2 out bottom of the 5th vistors leading with home team up to bat pitcher on the mound with the ball and the batter steps across home plate. I call time because pitcher had not started his motion when batter stepped across. What was the correct call? This was in regular league play and the time was running out home team wanted to get to the next inning.

[SamNVa]

I believe that the batter is allowed to change boxes any time until the pitcher starts the pitching motion, that is separates her hands at that point, the batter would be out.

If this activity continued, I would warn the manager that he would be in danger of violating rule 4.15 if this is an "OBR" league (i.e. LL or BabeRuth) or rule 5.4.E if playing by ASA rules.

[Roger Greene]

If it were FED:
7-3-3 "A batter shall not disconcert the ptcher by stepping out of the box on one side of home plate to the box on the other side while the pitcher is in position ready to pitch.
PENALTY: The ball becomes dead immediately. The batter is out."
(No requirement for pitching motion to have started, only that pitcher be on rubber, ready to pitch. You would also require the catcher to be in the catcher's box because of 6-3-3-1.)

Roger Greene,
Member UT

[oppool]

Roger is correct also under ASA rule 7 section 3-D the batter may not step across once the pitcher is in position to pitch. Unfortunatly when I found this out it was in the game and the home team was made up of mostly very experienced umpires they were nice enough not to protest but we did have a long discussion and rule book look after the game. The correct call is dead ball and batter is out.

[Steve M]

OP, that is sometimes the best way to learn.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Remember, in ASA, it's when the pitcher is:

(FP) simulating or taking the signal or
(SP) in a position to pitch.

There is nothing in ASA which requires any motion on behalf of the pitcher. If you're ready to go and the pitcher is in contact with the pitcher's plate, that is good enough. If the batter doesn't request (and is granted) time and crosses the plate to the opposite batter's box, the call is dead ball, batter is out.

Mike

[GOS0170]

All of this is fine and dandy and while you are still on the field wishing there was some way to end the excessively long game, I would already have it over. Remember that this situation is given with time running out. Therefore application of rule 5-4-e gives you the quickest end to the game. ASA rules of course.

[IRISHMAFIA]

You want to forfeit a game because the batter changed boxes at the wrong time?

Got a date, blue?

The home team was employing tactics to delay the game they were losing? The more they dragged their feet, the more likely it was that they would not be able to complete the game.

If you think they were trying to hasten the game, why would they be jumping back and forth actually delaying the game? The only way to actually hasten a game is to hit the ball on the ground and be very slow moving toward first base.

What the heck, here's the check.

[GOS0170]

You are forgetting that you just called the out on the batter for stepping accross the plate with the pitcher ready to pitch. From what you have said you would allow the home team to benefit by abusing the rules. It is a general principle that a penalty is not enforced if doing so benefits the violator. In this case the violation should either be ignored and the batter warned or envoke the deliberatehastening clause of rule 5-4-e. You can check with Oklahoma City but I think you will find for the situation given (time nearly expired) my call is accurate.

[oppool]

My question on rule 5-4e in ASA is meant for a regulation game of 7 inning and not a time based game as in this SIT: so I am not sure that you can apply this to time running out when your playing a clock game instead of regulation game.

You are correct on the home team wanting the out so they can start another inning before time expires since they already have 2 outs.


Our games are 55min or 7 innings but if the 3rd out is recorded before time expires you start a new inning which is completed till you have a winner

[Steve M]

Don,
If 5-4-E is just meant for a 7-inning game, it would say so. Especially in league play, I do not support invoking this rule. Also in league play, I doubt that I would call the batter out - I'd probably say to the batter that "What you just did may be called at out and in a tournament game it certainly would be. Do not do that again." If he did it again, then I'd take the out. Part of that is my outlook, league play is very different from championship play. League play, especially in slow pitch, is for exercise - to work up a thirst for the beer that they all seem to have for afterwards. You should treat it that way as to your approach. It's also a good time for you to work on some aspect of your game or some new mechanic you want to try. Not so in championship play.

[oppool]

Steve

In the new 2001 ASA rule book on page 129 it does state that all rules shall only apply to ASA championship play. ASA state or metro assoc as well as other org. may adopt or use all or any part of the ASA rules they deem appropriate for use in non-championship play. That is why my feeling that the rule 5-4e applies to games played that are regulation games (7inning) and not time base games.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Kent,

The statement on page 129 is merely a disclaimer that basicly keeps ASA from being blamed for something that happens in a game they have no control over. It doesn't mean that you don't use it.

[GOS0170]

Don
I have worked slow pitch league ball for the city of Houston for over 12 years. We also run a 55 minute or seven inning time limit with games scheduled every hour on the bottom of the hour and 4 games scheduled per night. Since the last game should end about 10:30 pm and the park closes at 11 pm staying on time is important. I actually envoked this rule once after warning the home team and since then have only had to threaten to envoke this rule to prevent reoccurances. It should only be used when the situation and actions clearly indicate to everyone that a rule is being violated in order to have a penalty enforced i.e. an out called so a new inning can be started before time expires. Generally I agree with Steve that direct enforcement of 5-4-e could cause problems because people don't realize the rule exists or do not understand the intent of the rule. As for application to championship play only, check out 5-11. J.O. A and Gold pool and double elimination play has a time limit in that no new inning may start after 1 hour 40 minutes.

[oppool]

GO:

I agree with you GO that 5-4e is the best way to end this situation at least with a team warning. I call up in suburb of Dallas and almost every night have seen at least one team try to do some act to try to get to next inning more common is the player intentionally stepping on home then hitting the ball or the runner intentionally leading off to get that quick out so they will get one more at bats after time has expired. I believe what my Org. needs to do since this has been a common practice is to have this rule(5-4e) discussed with coachs at the pre-game meeting so everybody hopefully understands. We are in our pre-season training now and will bring this up for discussion with my UIC.

Thanks for the Replies

Don