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Old Tue Nov 09, 2004, 09:51am
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I have been a slow pitch and fast pitch player. I have umpired both slow pitch and fast pitch sometimes up to the highest educational level. I have organized &/or coached both young teams and old man teams. I am a true believer that having been involved as a player and coach it makes me a better umpire. There have been articles written to the pro and con side of that thought. This rewritten (I know it's going into its second year of summer ball, upcoming FED season) obstruction rule though is going to create more headaches and arguments than it was every thought possible. I have now seen is as an umpire and most recently as a coach. If this rule is applied to its perfect sense I do not find it difficult to say that you could have obstruction on EACH AND EVERY tag play at ANY base. It makes me wonder if perhaps we should not take the "tag" play out of the defense (you know for that "safety" reason that covers up all sound reasoning for playing the game the way it was designed) and make outs only possible by "force", "K", or "fly-ball". Perhaps I am off base when I say or believe that the obstruction rule "update" was created to clean up its definition and application, not to penalize the defense for making a play that has been part of the game of softball or baseball long before anybody who will read this was even born. And in too many cases during the last year I've seen this rule applied incorrectly. If a player is blatantly blocking the path to a base in an attempt to stop a offensive player from obtaining that base indicate obstruction and make the proper call, but if the defense is making a play and in the process of catching the ball the base and simultaneously the base is blocked give the defense credit for doing their job and call the out. This rewritten rule was not done to give an advantage to the offense or the umpire and that is how I believe it is being enforced in far too many cases. Thank you for this opportunity to rant.
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Old Tue Nov 09, 2004, 10:07am
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Talking

Quote:
Originally posted by Bandit
I have umpired ... slow pitch ... up to the highest educational level.
I don't know if I would brag about that if I were you...

(Sorry, Bandit (& Mike) ... just a cheap joke!)
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Old Tue Nov 09, 2004, 10:10am
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"but if the defense is making a play and in the process of catching the ball the base and simultaneously the base is blocked give the defense credit for doing their job and call the out."

Also from a player, coach, and umpire: I see no reason ever for a defensive player to block the base. The player should setup alongside the basepath, catch, and sweep the tag. If the ball gets there first you get an out. If the runner gets there first they are safe. Clean, easy to call, and eliminates all possible collisions, ball dropped, and arguments about obstruction vs interference.

If we don't have an errant throw, and the defender is not in the basepath, than any contact would have to be initiated by the runner and we would have a clear case of interference.

WMB
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Old Tue Nov 09, 2004, 10:19am
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Quote:
Originally posted by Bandit
I have been a slow pitch and fast pitch player. I have umpired both slow pitch and fast pitch sometimes up to the highest educational level. I have organized &/or coached both young teams and old man teams. I am a true believer that having been involved as a player and coach it makes me a better umpire.
Funny, most good umpires believe just the opposite, that being an umpire would make you a better coach and player.
Quote:

There have been articles written to the pro and con side of that thought. This rewritten (I know it's going into its second year of summer ball, upcoming FED season) obstruction rule though is going to create more headaches and arguments than it was every thought possible. I have now seen is as an umpire and most recently as a coach. If this rule is applied to its perfect sense I do not find it difficult to say that you could have obstruction on EACH AND EVERY tag play at ANY base.
Couldn't disagree more. All it takes is for the coaches to learn and teach the game as it should be played.
Quote:

It makes me wonder if perhaps we should not take the "tag" play out of the defense (you know for that "safety" reason that covers up all sound reasoning for playing the game the way it was designed) and make outs only possible by "force", "K", or "fly-ball". Perhaps I am off base when I say or believe that the obstruction rule "update" was created to clean up its definition and application, not to penalize the defense for making a play that has been part of the game of softball or baseball long before anybody who will read this was even born. And in too many cases during the last year I've seen this rule applied incorrectly. If a player is blatantly blocking the path to a base in an attempt to stop a offensive player from obtaining that base indicate obstruction and make the proper call, but if the defense is making a play and in the process of catching the ball the base and simultaneously the base is blocked give the defense credit for doing their job and call the out.
It is really simple, if you do not have the ball, you cannot impede the player's progress. I really don't care about what they did fifty to a hundred years ago in another game. This rule is so simple, any umpire who cannot comprehend should,...well, try harder...

Quote:
This rewritten rule was not done to give an advantage to the offense or the umpire and that is how I believe it is being enforced in far too many cases. Thank you for this opportunity to rant.
I don't believe that they went far enough. I think they should eliminate the requirement for there to be a subsequent play.
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Old Tue Nov 09, 2004, 10:39am
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So you agree ?

So Mike you do agree that you should eliminate the tag play? Because thats what is happening with this rule being interpreted the way it is 90% of time. The offense is getting far to much of an advantage. And it also is giving umpires far to much room to make excuses for poor mechanics. " Mr.Umpire, Excuse me, tough angle on that call could you possible go to your partner and ask what he/she saw.... Sorry coach...had obstruction anyway. But Mr Umpire, you didn't indicate obstruction ? Yes Mr Coach I didn't but that my reason now."
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Old Tue Nov 09, 2004, 10:59am
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Order of life ?

[QUOTE]Originally posted by IRISHMAFIA
[B]
Quote:
Originally posted by Bandit
I have been a slow pitch and fast pitch player. I have umpired both slow pitch and fast pitch sometimes up to the highest educational level. I have organized &/or coached both young teams and old man teams. I am a true believer that having been involved as a player and coach it makes me a better umpire.
Funny, most good umpires believe just the opposite, that being an umpire would make you a better coach and player.[b][quote]

Would you rather have students teaching our sons and daughters math and science or would rather have teachers who used to be students teaching. How can you you be a teacher before being a student?

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Old Tue Nov 09, 2004, 01:01pm
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Quoted from Bandit's originial post:

If this rule is applied to its perfect sense I do not find it difficult to say that you could have obstruction on EACH AND EVERY tag play at ANY base.

Bandit,

You nearly do have obstruction on each and every tag play, especially
at the 12-16 age groups. Most think because they are the 2nd baseperson
that is their bag. The
majority of OBS is done at 1B. They stand in such a manner that the progress of the
baserunner is nearly always impeded. I agree with WMB who stated that
coaches must now teach the players the correct way to
make their tags
and/or play their positions.


I like the altered OBS rule, hope they don't mess with it anymore. I am
glad FED is following suit. AFA will more than likely tag along with ASA
also.

JMHO

[Edited by whiskers_ump on Nov 9th, 2004 at 01:04 PM]
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Old Tue Nov 09, 2004, 02:52pm
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This is really a simple rule to understand. And a simple one to coach your players on. I don't see the issue.
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Old Tue Nov 09, 2004, 02:56pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by mcrowder
I don't see the issue.
Me either!
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Old Tue Nov 09, 2004, 05:19pm
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Re: So you agree ?

Quote:
Originally posted by Bandit
So Mike you do agree that you should eliminate the tag play? Because thats what is happening with this rule being interpreted the way it is 90% of time. The offense is getting far to much of an advantage. And it also is giving umpires far to much room to make excuses for poor mechanics. " Mr.Umpire, Excuse me, tough angle on that call could you possible go to your partner and ask what he/she saw.... Sorry coach...had obstruction anyway. But Mr Umpire, you didn't indicate obstruction ? Yes Mr Coach I didn't but that my reason now."
What the hell are you talking about? Even more so, what are you reading that I didn't type?

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Old Tue Nov 09, 2004, 05:27pm
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Re: Order of life ?


Quote:
Originally posted by Bandit
I have been a slow pitch and fast pitch player. I have umpired both slow pitch and fast pitch sometimes up to the highest educational level. I have organized &/or coached both young teams and old man teams. I am a true believer that having been involved as a player and coach it makes me a better umpire.
Funny, most good umpires believe just the opposite, that being an umpire would make you a better coach and player.
Quote:

Would you rather have students teaching our sons and daughters math and science or would rather have teachers who used to be students teaching. How can you you be a teacher before being a student?
Please note: I will be posting in the American variety of the English language. Obviously, you read one thing and respond otherwise.

I have never seen a player or coach who did not learn more about the game through attending umpire schools and clinics.

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Old Wed Nov 10, 2004, 07:58am
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Please except my apology

Mr Irishmafia. I must have caught you on a bad day or simple hit a raw nerve. My purpose of this post certainly was not to have anyone respond in the language and sarcasm of which you have displayed. That normally I don't believe is your style. As my original post said "thank you for letting me rant". I certainly do believe in the rewritten rule I simple think that it is not being applied correctly in many cases. I think that umpires are "giving away" too much. I've seen it as an umpire and as I'm sure you can see by my post most recently as a coach. I am very good friends with the umpire that, I BELIEVE, called it incorrectly. I just don't think this re-write was done to take away the from normal or past flow of a tag play.
I must ask something though in response to your last post. I do not know currently from what part of the country you are from but do you get a lot of players and coaches that attend umpire clinics and meetings? While they are still coaching and/or playing? In Indiana we do have the requirement of all high school coaches attend one (1) rule interpretation meeting each spring that is the only instance I see alot of coaches attending such meetings.

[Edited by Bandit on Nov 10th, 2004 at 08:04 AM]
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Old Wed Nov 10, 2004, 10:46am
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Talking Re: Please except my apology

Quote:
Originally posted by Bandit
...the language and sarcasm ...That normally I don't believe is your style.
Hmmmmmm.... Shall we take a vote?
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Old Wed Nov 10, 2004, 10:55am
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Re: Re: Please except my apology

Quote:
Originally posted by Dakota
Quote:
Originally posted by Bandit
...the language and sarcasm ...That normally I don't believe is your style.
Hmmmmmm.... Shall we take a vote?
Why bother...we already know the answer!
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Old Wed Nov 10, 2004, 03:11pm
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No need to.





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"Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things
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Explore. Dream. Discover."
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