Going Back & Forth, Obstruction

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally posted by Bandit
I have been a slow pitch and fast pitch player. I have umpired both slow pitch and fast pitch sometimes up to the highest educational level. I have organized &/or coached both young teams and old man teams. I am a true believer that having been involved as a player and coach it makes me a better umpire.

Funny, most good umpires believe just the opposite, that being an umpire would make you a better coach and player.

Would you rather have students teaching our sons and daughters math and science or would rather have teachers who used to be students teaching. How can you you be a teacher before being a student?

Can someone please tell me what students teaching teachers has anything to do with the statement I made?

It sounds to me that Bandit is insinuating the the players and coaches are the teaches and the umpire the student.

I have never had a player/coach turn umpire that did not state that the umpire clinics and schools taught them much more about the game and rules than they ever imagined.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally posted by Bandit
I have been a slow pitch and fast pitch player. I have umpired both slow pitch and fast pitch sometimes up to the highest educational level. I have organized &/or coached both young teams and old man teams. I am a true believer that having been involved as a player and coach it makes me a better umpire.

Funny, most good umpires believe just the opposite, that being an umpire would make you a better coach and player.

Would you rather have students teaching our sons and daughters math and science or would rather have teachers who used to be students teaching. How can you you be a teacher before being a student?

Can someone please tell me what students teaching teachers has anything to do with the statement I made?

It sounds to me that Bandit is insinuating the the players and coaches are the teaches and the umpire the student.

I have never had a player/coach turn umpire that did not state that the umpire clinics and schools taught them much more about the game and rules than they ever imagined.



[Edited by IRISHMAFIA on Nov 10th, 2004 at 10:58 PM]

[whiskers_ump]

I had a coach ask me this weekend why are associations
always changing the rules.
He said, "It just confuses the kids."

R-i-g-h-t

We all know who it confuses.

[DaveASA/FED]

Bandit,
Personally I like the new rule. But I agree with you 100% that it is misapplied alot. I also agree that it is not that difficult to view this change. The way I look at it is 1) did the runner do something (slow down, slide, alter path etc) as a result of the fielders actions? 2) Did the fielder have the ball when their action resulted in the runner doing something?

If the answers are 1)Yes, 2) No then I have OBS, if any other combination then no OBS!

Like I said this rule is misapplied often, one example I have already given you, runner rounds 3rd, catcher infront of plate, runner still proceeding full speed, no reaction at all, BU declares OBS as fielder is in basepath! WTF? From what I saw (game off as umpire at tournament) there was no OBS, and BU told me later that it was OBS "cause she was in the way." He never took the reaction, or lack there of, into account when he inforced OBS.
It's like all the other rules there just has to be a widely accepted interpretation, and backed up by case plays that spell out situations and the accepted result of these situations to get everyone on the same page!

[greymule]

I have been away from the board for a while, busy with some sad things.

The OBS rule has been the last straw for me. I've seen too many plays that technically qualify as OBS but that I simply can't bring myself to call. Runner coming home is 10 feet from the plate when the catcher moves in front of the plate to catch the throw. Out. Coaches scream OBS and cite the new rule. Because for my entire life that play has been an out, I haven't called OBS, but they're right. Similar plays at 3B when F5 is standing in front of 3B as he catches the throw and the runner is approaching. Never was OBS, but the runner did slow down, though he would have been out anyway.

They've eliminated the tag play at home in senior softball. Maybe it's time at the other levels.

I stopped doing Fed a few years ago when I realized that I should not umpire under a code if I cannot enforce all the rules. (And Fed had a bunch I couldn't swallow: idiotic rules on OBS, illegal pitches, sliding, "tobacco-like substances," and many more.) I'm leaning toward stopping ASA, too, on the same principle.

Besides, I'm not really enjoying it any more.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally posted by greymule
I have been away from the board for a while, busy with some sad things.

The OBS rule has been the last straw for me. I've seen too many plays that technically qualify as OBS but that I simply can't bring myself to call. Runner coming home is 10 feet from the plate when the catcher moves in front of the plate to catch the throw. Out. Coaches scream OBS and cite the new rule. Because for my entire life that play has been an out, I haven't called OBS, but they're right. Similar plays at 3B when F5 is standing in front of 3B as he catches the throw and the runner is approaching. Never was OBS, but the runner did slow down, though he would have been out anyway.

No, this just isn't true. This is the type of thinking that causes the confusion. Obstruction doesn't happen until it happens.

Hey, little Susie rounds 3B and sees the catcher waiting for the ball this side of the plate and slows down. Well, that is NOT obstruction, but a DMR! Now the base coach wants OBS because s/he TOLD the runner to stop because of where the catcher was located. Now you have a DMC!

It is the runner's responsibility to make every effort to reach the base to which they are progressing. If they choose to slow down prior where a defender affects the actual play, they do so on their own. A runner should always be prepared to go around a defender and allow the umpire to do their job.

Granted, as we have seen in many of discussions on this and other boards, not every umpire is going to do their job and make the proper call, but then again, not every umpire has the same strike zone or understanding of interference or a dozen other judgment calls.

They've eliminated the tag play at home in senior softball. Maybe it's time at the other levels.

I stopped doing Fed a few years ago when I realized that I should not umpire under a code if I cannot enforce all the rules. (And Fed had a bunch I couldn't swallow: idiotic rules on OBS, illegal pitches, sliding, "tobacco-like substances," and many more.) I'm leaning toward stopping ASA, too, on the same principle.

Besides, I'm not really enjoying it any more.

That would be a shame, but it's your life to live whichever way you choose. It is not unusual for many umpires to not want to work a particular game on any given night, but we do it anyway because we know that for all the lousy games, there is going to be some great ones just around the corner.

[chas]

So what happens when R1 is running to first and F5's toss veers to the inside of the bag right in R1's path? If F3 goes for the ball and makes contact with R1 while not in possession of the ball that's OBS. I can't see any player not going for the ball because OBS is going to be called. I don't think any coaches will teach their troops to not make an attempt on a slightly errant toss because OBS might be called.If avoiding collisions is the meat behind this rule, I don't think it's going to happen any time soon. Same goes for R1 trying to steal second and F2's throw goes to the second base side of second base, the fielder is going to go for the ball and R1 is more than likely going to collide with the fielder. I think this used to be just a collision but now it's OBS correct?

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally posted by chas
So what happens when R1 is running to first and F5's toss veers to the inside of the bag right in R1's path? If F3 goes for the ball and makes contact with R1 while not in possession of the ball that's OBS. I can't see any player not going for the ball because OBS is going to be called. I don't think any coaches will teach their troops to not make an attempt on a slightly errant toss because OBS might be called.If avoiding collisions is the meat behind this rule, I don't think it's going to happen any time soon. Same goes for R1 trying to steal second and F2's throw goes to the second base side of second base, the fielder is going to go for the ball and R1 is more than likely going to collide with the fielder. I think this used to be just a collision but now it's OBS correct?

Both are HTBT, but I cannot see any reason why you wouldn't protect a runner.

It certainly isn't the runner's fault that the defense cannot throw and/or catch the ball.