FED Bashing

[Skahtboi]

Originally posted by WestMichBlue
Two bad calls by ASA umpires doing HS balls;(sic) two kids penalized.

How can you make this assertion??? I have remained quiet in this argument until now, as I see this as a statement either a)made out of ignorance, or b)simply to inflame others on this board. This was just bad umpiring, whether it was ASA, NFHS, or any other association. To say that it was two ASA umpires(whether true or not) is to attack the credibility of the association, not of the umpire. If it is your desire to attack the credibility of ASA, then you need to go back and study the history of the game of softball as it has developed, not just in America, but in the world, and you will see that ASA has made immeasurable contributions to the game, and the rules, of nearly every association.

The first call was just a case of confusing the rules of one association with the one he was calling. Sounds as if he needs to study the rule book more. But, just like the fact that ASA provides rule books and the best training of umpires available anywhere, you can't always make the "aspiring" umpire read the book or attend the schools. Sounds like this guy needs a lot of both!

Incidentally, the last call that you mentioned was incorrect in ASA, USSSA, NFHS and nearly any sanctioning body that I can think of. Call it what it was, just plain old poor umpiring!

[Edited by Skahtboi on Nov 5th, 2004 at 03:30 PM]

[WestMichBlue]

Your are correct Scott. I apologize. What I was thinking was two bad calls by umpires using ASA rules, but that is not what I typed. And it shouldn't have been TWO. I was picturing the second umpire as I typed; knowing that he came for the adult softball world and applied a particularily harsh judgment to a youth player. And you are right that it is a wrong call regardless of the rule book. I need to slow down and re-read what I type before I push the Submit button.

WMB

[azbigdawg]

all I see here is a pissing contest...and everyone is getting their own leg wet..... nice to see all the egos..its ok to have a difference of opinion..but be nice....

[whiskers_ump]

I agree with bigdawd here.

This bashing isn't sovling anything. We apply the rules of the association
that has hired us to officiate the game. AFA, ASA, NSA, USSSA, NCAAA, NHFS,
even USFA or NFSA. You knew going in what was expected. If you don't like it,
don't accept the assignment. All umpires, regardless of which of the groups
they belong will make mistakes. Is one group better than the others. Probably
not, it is the individuals doing the games that make them what they are. We
have all pounded NFHS because of some of their chosen rules, but we have
also bickered about the other associations. They all have a rule that none of
us probably like, but we choose the games and tournaments we want to call. So
apply the rule, drink a brew and spew over it after the game. Lets get back
to doing what most all of you do best, discuss the rules, not blast someone
because they disagree with the way they are handled.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally posted by WestMichBlue


I have no problem with ASA rules for adults; if they go over the line – boot ‘em out of the game and let the League or Tournament decide their future play. But if I have to deal with, say 14U players, I prefer the latitude the NFHS rules give me. I prefer the ability to take corrective action rather than punitive.

WMB

Have you ever had a 12 year old turn around in the box and ask, "What the **** were you looking at?" How about a 14 yo intentionally throwing a pitch at the batter? Maybe a 16 yo catcher nailing a runner in the back with a throw now where near in the direction of another defender and then laugh about it, mocking the player on the ground writhing in pain. Then there is the Billy Martin wannabe telling the shortstop to just plant the ball between the runner's eyes. I've experienced every one of these and it is not fun or part of being an umpire.

You are kidding yourself if you believe keeping players and coaches REGARDLESS OF AGE in a game is a good thing. You want to be a nice guy, fine. But if that means setting your fellow umpires up with problematic players, coaches and teams, than shame on you.

The only person you are doing a favor is yourself, and that is not part of the job description of an umpire.

I was just like you when I start umpiring softball. I swore to myself that I wasn't going to become a hair-trigger umpier. Well, living in a small state means that everyone in the softball community pretty much knows everyone else. I had to make a decision of whether I was going to earn my money doing the job, or just get by.

I chose to do the job. And, yes, I've tossed a few people in my time, but never anyone who did not eject themselves. Ejecting players does not make an umpire bad. In the case of most umpires in my area, the players know who they can mess with and those whom they cannot. I'm one of the ones they know will not hesitate to dump someone if necessary. Because of that, my ejections remain low because the players know I'm going to give them a good game. Most of those who do get ejected are the same players and coaches. You know, the ones that are too stupid to learn anything about the game then what they see in the local MLB broadcast.

Meanwhile, the "greens" and lazy umpires rarely eject anyone, sit there and take the abuse along with their money. When they do eject a player, they refuse to report it thinking that will get them on the good side of the player/coach. Yeah, screw their fellow umpires, let's worry about what the players think! Lo and behold, two weeks later, the same umpire is ejecting the same players and still not reporting it.

Of course, when they run across an umpire doing their job, they can never understand why s/he will not take all the **** the last guy took. Go figure!

Saying that one has no problem tossing adults, but refrains from ejecting someone in the youth program is like saying someone should not protect themselves when a kid is pointing a gun at them because they are just a kid. Yeah, like the bullet can tell the age of the person whose finger squeezed the trigger.

I'm done with this one.

[jstark23]

BRAVO Mike, BRAVO BRAVO!!!! While I agree with points on both sides of this little match, I have this to add, I went home back out to West Texas a couple of weeks ago to work with some old friends and see some of the people that I had worked games for since I started, an interesting thing happened in the nightcap of a very long day I had a pitch come in about a foot inside but hit the catcher right where she set up... BALL and of course out of the dugout "Where did that pitch miss" from the First Baseman, "Right down the middle" well that kinda drew my ire, so I took off my mask started strolling down the line got about half way there and was met by the coach from the team after he starts yelling at me I decided to eject him and his first baseman... go upstairs to change clothes and get out of dodge the tournament director come up to me and says I'm glad you got rid of her she's been doing the same thing the whole day and even worse on the other field, so I get changed and head to Chilli's to have a little food and some comraderie with other brothers of the fraternity and i ask the guy that was the senior person on the other field about her, His response, Yeah I could have ejected her but I didn't want to mess with it... Now which one of us looks like the jackass, to those in the buisness he does but to the outside world I do... now the $64,000 question Yes I would have ran her in a fed game just like I did in a meaningless ASA poolplay tournament... oh yeah the kicker the firstbaseman's dad comes up and shakes my hand afterwards and says John I'm glad that someone had the cajone's to run her

[Dakota]

Originally posted by whiskers_ump
We apply the rules of the association that has hired us to officiate the game. AFA, ASA, NSA, USSSA, NCAAA, NHFS,
even USFA or NFSA. You knew going in what was expected. If you don't like it, don't accept the assignment.

Agreed, but this is a rules discussion board, not a protest committee much less an on-the-field ruling.

Don't confuse disagreement with the rule, the philosophy behind the rule, or even the process used to write the rule with applying the rule on the field.

We tend to get motive, loyalty, affiliation, and even integrity confused with opinion.

When calling HS ball, I am fully prepared to call their dodgeball rule as they wish it called. That doesn't mean I agree with it. It also doesn't mean when I express my disagreement with it that I am "bashing" the entirty of the NFHS or their rule-making processes (although I don't particularly like parts of that, either). Criticism is not "bashing."

I do find offensive and hypocritical the self-made claim that NFHS is more interested in participation and more interested in handling kids properly while at the same time allowing state champion teams to be DQed because some sour grapes coach protested AFTER THE FACT that one participant had the wrong color underwear. This is not a one-time anomoly - it has happened at least twice in my little corner of the nation. In the same vein is DQing a team's entire season because one player ON LAST YEAR'S TEAM participated in a summer league. Participation and for the good of the kids my foot. Like many things with government run organizations, common sense is lacking.

Similarly, when I criticise ASA for the influence of adult slowpitch on the JO program I'm not bashing ASA. Neither am I an ASA blind loyalist when I (as in years past) tried to explain the rationale and the interpretation of the "about to receive" clause to those who viewed it as silly or worse.

On the dodgeball rule, I cannot understand the rationale behind the ruling. So, I criticize it in denegrating terms (i.e. "dodgeball") and treat it with derision. But, that is opinion only and only directed at the rule, not the organization, and does not carry over on to the field.

After a year's experience with HS ball, on the whole it was a pleasure, but I did get cheated out of 3 game fees dues to an argument between schools as to who would pay and a school confirming that I was assigned to do their game when they didn't even have a team. Plus,they are very, very slow to pay. I've never had such issues with summer leagues. And, the coach's influence is noticeably greater in how the whole program is run, WMB's protestations to the contrary. Mostly that is benign from the umpire's perspective, but it is real.