FED Bashing

[WestMichBlue]

In another post, Dakota said:

”After all, what do the NCAA and the NFHS have in common WRT the rules of the game? ANS: The coaches are in control.”

This FED bashing is becoming common for you, Tom, and I am somewhat surprised. This is your first year of calling H.S. ball and I wonder why you have to frequently criticize the organization that you now work under.

Your statement that coaches control the FED demonstrates your lack of knowledge (and respect) for that organization. And maybe it is a slap at Emily Alexander in her role as Officials Representative on the NFHS Softball Rules Committee. I don’t even think that it is fair to Marty Harrington of GA who represents coaches on the committee. Or to the representatives of the eight national sections of the country that make up the majority of the committee. They come from the State Associations that use these rules; the position is rotated among the four or five states in each section. (The rep for section 5, which includes MN, is Rick Bowden from Topeka, KS.)

Who are these representatives? They are not coaches! They are administrators whose primary function is to serve thousands of high school athletes in their states that compete in thousands of athletic contests each school year. My neighbor recently left his position at a nearby H.S. to move to Lansing to accept a position with our State Association. He was the AD, he had coached; his wife was his varsity Basketball coach; he was also an umpire, calling high school through minor league BB games. Now he is an administrator and maybe someday he could get chosen to sit on a FED rules committee. Would you suggest that somehow he would be “coach” orientated on the committee?

The FED is a huge national organization, writing the rules for all high school sports (excepting golf and tennis) for nearly all high schools in fifty states (and through linkage for high schools in Canada). I don’t know how old it is, but we have been playing high school basketball and football since the early 1900’s so we have probably had a national rules organization nearly that long (NCAA began in 1906). A significant point is that NFHS rules are specifically written for youth sports, not adopted from adult rules.

If you wish to focus on a single sport then lets look at softball. ASA’s heritage and rules are specifically for adult softball; as recently as twenty years ago youth sports were only briefly mentioned by ASA with rules to cover field sizes and prohibition of metal spikes. By time NFHS entered the softball field it already had in place a youth rules culture that would govern it’s softball rules design. Some would have us believe that softball rules are just warmed over baseball rules. Perhaps, but as long as I remember there were pages of differences between FED BB and FED SB.

If you want to lay the books out side by side, you will find that the text in ASA rules and FED softball rules is identical in the majority of the book. Where it is different, it is my opinion that the FED book is better with respect to youth ball. ASA, because of its adult orientation, tends to be much harsher in penalty applications. In ASA, if you don’t report a legal substitute the player is kicked out of the game. In FED play goes on and the child is not punished for an adult’s mistake. ASA can extract a harsher penalty for a BOO infraction. And FED provides a greater tolerance for disciplinary issues. It defines both major and minor unsporting conduct and allows the umpire to bench a player for the balance of the current game without ejection and subjecting her to future game penalties.

For the educational process, and the role that high school athletics play in that process, the FED rules are simply better. I am not sure that the NFHS deserves ASA umpire’s scorn simply because you disagree with an interpretation of a single rule. A rule, BTW, that is identical in both books. The rule states that a B-R is out if she runs outside the three-foot land and, in the judgment of the umpire, interferes with the fielder taking the throw at first base. That’s it! It doesn’t say if the batter-runner was created by a hit or D3K or walk, just batter-runner. It doesn’t say intentional, just interference with a fielder (not the ball). It doesn’t say “play”; in fact play is not even defined in either book. So you ASA guys have to run through the rulebook, trying to stitch together pieces of rules to support your interpretation. And then blast the NFHS just because they don’t agree with your interpt.

As too many have already said here – you call the rules according to the way the people who are paying you want them called.

WMB

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally posted by WestMichBlue
In another post, Dakota said:

”After all, what do the NCAA and the NFHS have in common WRT the rules of the game? ANS: The coaches are in control.”

This FED bashing is becoming common for you, Tom, and I am somewhat surprised.

Oooh, oooh, wait! Please don't leave me out of this.

While I believe the Fed should absolutely retain it's position as a sanctioning body for high school sports, I will be the first to state that they should get out of the rules business.

Another problem I have, at least in my little section of this country, is that ASA provides 100% of umpire training. The annual Fed "clinic" is run more for the coaches with the umpires almost as an afterthought. There is no direction to the umpires other than which "state optional" rules will be used and a quick review of any rule changes. That's it, nothing else!

I put out the time and the money and the NFHS benefits.

See, it all depends on where one is standing at the time as to whether they may or may not be on target with any criticism of the Fed or any other organization.

Tom, welcome to the club.

[WestMichBlue]

”Oooh, oooh, wait! Please don't leave me out of this.”

I wasn’t leaving you out Mike. You’re a known FED basher and I didn’t see any reason to give you any more free PR. My surprise was Tom apparently trying to hang on to your coattails.

”I will be the first to state that they should get out of the rules business.”

Why? Didn’t you read what I said? I gave you reasons why the FED rules are better for youth sports. What have you offered as rebuttal to suggest that high school associations should adopt ASA rules? Saying that you don’t them is not, in my opinion, a valid argument.

If NFHS got out of the rules business, would they exist anymore? What then? Use MLB rules for high school baseball? NFL rules for high school football? 24 second clock for high school basketball?

Actually I would suggest that ASA get out of youth rules and use the NFHS book for it’s JO program.

”at least in my little section of this country, is that ASA provides 100% of umpire training.”

In Michigan the MASA provides one day of mechanics clinics and intro to new rules. It is a quality session, but that is all it is. And the majority of the attention is on slow pitch. Local districts provide a half-day clinic; it’s OK, but it’s more of a business meeting than umpire training. Sure, I could drive 400 miles to an ASA national camp; pay an unknown fee (ASA doesn’t publish the cost on it’s website), plus unknown expenses. And still have to put up with the adult slow pitch B.S.

”The annual Fed "clinic" is run more for the coaches with the umpires almost as an afterthought.”

Surprise Mike – NFHS does not do umpire training! They write rules! Their support of umpires is limited to providing rulebooks, casebooks, and umpire manuals, along with interpretations and documentation for rule changes.

State Associations hold annual “rules meetings” for coaches and umpires to explain new rules. That includes game rules plus school rules, which include player eligibility, number of games, etc. I am sure that most State Associations, like Michigan, provide policy, training, and support to local associations to develop local training classes.

Our local umpires association provides one full day of mechanics training, one full day of intro and basic rules for Rookies, and 10 hours of classroom rules training. Targeted training – NFHS rules for high school fast pitch umpires. As a certified high school trainer, I regularly attend ASA clinics and take what I learn there to help me train. But our training focuses on NFHS rules and, as such, is superior to ASA training for our intended purpose – training high school umpires. Just like NFHS rules are superior for their intended purpose – youth sports.

”I put out the time and the money, and the NFHS benefits.”

I put out time and money and the high school athlete benefits. I had the opportunity to play high school athletics because adults put out time and money to be available to officiate my contests. And my children received the same benefit when they went through school, as has the first of my grandchildren.

If you don’t like high school sports, so be it. But that doesn’t justify this ‘holier than thou” attitude that somehow ASA is a superior organization to the NFHS.

WMB

[Edited by WestMichBlue on Nov 3rd, 2004 at 08:45 AM]

[mcrowder]

Since you brought it up, the FED football rules aren't even real football (what the heck is up with allowing multiple forward passes?!?!?). The opinion that others have posted elsewhere that high-school kids can't understand how to play if NCAA rules were used is absolutely faulty. Even our PeeWee kids can understand how to play, here in Texas.

I agree with Mike that the NFHS should get out of the rules business - both in baseball and in football.

[whiskers_ump]

I am not going to get into this, well, not really.

I only have one thing to say.

We Need One Big Softball Rule Book"

We all know which one that would be.

[Dakota]

Originally blathered by WMB
This FED bashing is becoming common for you, Tom, and I am somewhat surprised. This is your first year of calling H.S. ball and I wonder why you have to frequently criticize the organization that you now work under.

Your statement that coaches control the FED demonstrates your lack of knowledge (and respect) for that organization. And maybe it is a slap at Emily Alexander in her role as Officials Representative on the NFHS Softball Rules Committee.

My surprise was Tom apparently trying to hang on to your coattails.

WMB,

You are back to your old, old habit of ad hominem attack and straw man arguments.

Are you such a toady for NFHS you can't stand valid criticism and view it as "bashing"?

To even suggest that a coaches are not in control of varsity sports at both the HS and college level is to deny the obvious. And it doesn't matter how many good and well-meaning people are "involved" in the process. Being involved is not control. By and large, coaches in varsity sports get what they want, be it umpires assigned to their home games, umpires assigned to state tournaments, or rule changes. AD's in HS sports are hardly independent operators.

And don't get me started on the "good of the student" bull crap. Not until NFHS-affiliated state associations quit DQing state champions for wearing the wrong color underwear and similar "gotcha" silly-a$$ rules.

[WestMichBlue]

”You are back to your old, old habit of ad hominem attack”

Gee whiz Tom, if you are going to dazzle us with those big words you ought to at least know how to use them. To suggest that I am trying to reject your argument based on some frivolous or irrelevant fact about you personally is just plain wrong. You made a statement that “high school coaches control the NFHS rules code.” I simply rebutted your assertion with factual statement about how the process works. In no way is that an ad hominem.

Fact is that you are more guilty, for your attack on me about my “old, old habit” is indeed an ad hominem. And, BTW, it is not true. I do not have a habit of using ad hominems; I am a debater and I love to use factual information and logical assumptions in my arguments rather than character assassination. (Though maybe you might consider the “coattails” remark a form of the latter.)


” coaches in varsity sports get what they want- “

“be it umpires assigned to their home games” Not around here. Umpire association assigns umpires to games. We provide the schedules to the AD’s; they mail out the contracts and make out the checks. The only involvement of the coach is to carry the checks to the field and hand them to the umpires prior to the game.

“umpires assigned to state tournaments”

Not here. Quarter, Semi, and Finals officials are appointed by a State Association committee. District and Regional tournament managers get their officials from local official’s associations.

”or rule changes.”

Either you are spouting off just to “bash,” or you have no clue. If a coach wants a rule change he has to sell his AD. The AD can call his contact at the State Association and sell him/her. The State has to contact the regional rep that sits on the NFHS rules committee. (For you, Tom, its that guy in Kansas). Of course, the coach could go through the coaches association to reach the Coach’s Rep on the NFHS committee. Likewise, an official could reach the Officials Rep on the committee. But combined, those are only 2 of 13 voices on the Softball Rules committee. To suggest that coaches control NFHS rules is simply ludicrous.


”Not until NFHS-affiliated state associations”

Your usage of the word “affiliated” suggests that the NFHS has a “son” or branch relationship with the State Associations. Actually, the opposite is true. Many State Associations have existed for a long time. (Your own MSHSL is almost 90 years old). The NFHS is a creation of the State Associations to provide uniformity amongst all the States (and Canadian Providences). We say NFHS, but it is really the National Federation OF State High School Associations.

Likewise, your State Associations are nothing more than a voluntary association of your state’s high schools. The schools give up authority for participation rules (player eligibility, length of season, etc) to the Association and the Association in turn manages statewide tournaments for the schools. Thirty years ago Tom your state created two tournament classes based on school enrollment. Was that dictated by the NFHS? State Legislature? No – your schools authorized the MSHSL to poll the member schools and the majority of the schools voted for it.

” similar "gotcha" silly-a$$ rules.”

Oooh, you, an umpire, bashing the legal authority for state tournaments for enforcing its rules. Regardless of how silly you think a rule is, do you not enforce it in a game. Are you not on record, here and on other boards for advising umpires to follow the rules and not put their own interpretations into their calls?

OK – instead of bashing me, why don’t you offer some rational counterpoints to my statements that ASA rules “tend to be much harsher in penalty applications” than NFHS. I provided three that quickly came to mind; let’s make it simple and just discuss one.

Under ASA, the failure of the team manager to inform the umpire of a substitution turns a legal substitute into an illegal one. When discovered, the player is DQ’ed. In high school ball an unreported legal substitute is considered in the game when play is started. Thus the child is not penalized for the adult’s mistake. But NFHS will not allow the coach to continue to make those mistakes, for after a warning to the coach any future unreported sub is restricted to the bench.

This brings up another issue. NFHS allows a player to be restricted to the bench for minor unsporting violations. There can be a significant difference between restriction and ejection (ASA disqualification). I suspect that most states are like Michigan – if a high school athlete is ejected from a contest he/she is ineligible the rest of the day and the next day of competition. If you get kicked out in the first game of a Saturday tournament, you could lose 4 or 5 games that day and the DH scheduled next Tuesday. Ejection can be a hell of a penalty for a high school athlete. Restriction simply means the player is benched for the rest of the game. Then all is forgiven and they can play again the next game.

Now – can you make an argument on the above points that ASA rules are not more punitive , and/or are a better answer than NFHS for youth sports?

WMB

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally posted by WestMichBlue


Now – can you make an argument on the above points that ASA rules are not more punitive , and/or are a better answer than NFHS for youth sports?

WMB

Yes. To this point only, the Fed has no choice.

Any open youth sport association is voluntary by nature. The player has the option of playing where and when they please. The coach is not a paid employee of the sponsoring association, thus has limited, if any, liability toward the player's welfare off the field. Thus, a player and/or coach may be ejected and asked to leave. Unless there is a provision in that association's (team's, not sanctioning body) that places the coach in a liabilous situation, they've got to go. If there is a provision to hold the coach responsible, then that organization can chose to replace the coach with anyone in a game situation and the ejected player can leave with a parent or guardian. They are not bound by the law holding school liable for the student's welfare.

When dealing with high school ball, the sponsoring association (school) is liable, by law, for any child under their charge any time that individual is on the property (including real estate, transportation device or area secured for an event) or taking part in a sponsored activity. Hence, the rules must be in line with those responsibilities or the school could not conduct their athletic events under their code.

IOW, the rules cannot dictate that a child be sent away from the required supervision of an adult recognized by the school as the responsible party. In turn, the same applies to the coach as the rules cannot deprive the team of the required supervision. This is why a coach cannot just leave the field and let some parent or fan take over for him/her.

[Dakota]

Originally blathered by WestMichBlue
Gee whiz Tom, if you are going to dazzle us with those big words you ought to at least know how to use them.

Clever. Hide an ad hominem inside a rebuttal claiming you are not engaged in such. And I know exactly what the word means. I also know what a straw man argument is. Do you? You been using them constantly in this thread.

To suggest that I am trying to reject your argument based on some frivolous or irrelevant fact about you personally is just plain wrong. You made a statement that “high school coaches control the NFHS rules code.” I simply rebutted your assertion with factual statement about how the process works. In no way is that an ad hominem.

Nice dodge, but I was making 2 points - one your response included name-calling, and your response was based on a strawman argument.

Fact is that you are more guilty, for your attack on me about my “old, old habit” is indeed an ad hominem. And, BTW, it is not true. I do not have a habit of using ad hominems;

I seem to recall our first "introduction" to each other wherein you accused me of "following you around" to various boards, a blatent untruth. Your name-calling in that multi-board "debate" reached low levels for any of the softball boards. I thought we had progressed past that. I guess not.

I am a debater and I love to use factual information and logical assumptions in my arguments rather than character assassination.

Yeah, right.

(Though maybe you might consider the “coattails” remark a form of the latter.)

Bingo.

Dismissing out of hand all of the "around here" stuff since I have no information on which to base any response.

HS AD's are generally coaches. To claim the coach must "convince" the AD is many times a conversation with a mirror. At the college level, the infllunece of the coaches with the college AD and the college president is lengendary. And factual.

Your usage of the word “affiliated” suggests that the NFHS has a “son” or branch relationship with the State Associations. Actually, the opposite is true.

Classic straw man argument. Not worthy of a response.

Oooh, you, an umpire, bashing the legal authority for state tournaments for enforcing its rules. Regardless of how silly you think a rule is, do you not enforce it in a game.

Pay attention, WMB. My ridicule was against the enforcement of the rule after the game merely to DQ the winner. And the enforcing body is your sacred state association, not the game officials.

OK – instead of bashing me, why don’t you offer some rational counterpoints to my statements that ASA rules “tend to be much harsher in penalty applications” than NFHS. I provided three that quickly came to mind; let’s make it simple and just discuss one.

Because it was a straw man, and not at all related to the topic of coach control of the system. It was a Clintonesque diversionary tactic intended to cause a defensive reaction from the other side. Nice try, though.

This brings up another issue. NFHS allows a player to be restricted to the bench for minor unsporting violations.

I have posted before that I like this option and wish ASA would adopt it. You, though, are trying to turn this into an ASA v NFHS discussion in general, as if I somehow am as much a toady for ASA as you seem to be for NFHS. The fact is, I have no problem criticizing ASA where I see the need.

Now – can you make an argument on the above points that ASA rules are not more punitive , and/or are a better answer than NFHS for youth sports?

No, because it is, as I said above, a strawman. What about the original topic - the notion that beaning a batter-runner on an awarded base consititutes interference?

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally posted by Dakota

I have posted before that I like this option and wish ASA would adopt it. You, though, are trying to turn this into an ASA v NFHS discussion in general, as if I somehow am as much a toady for ASA as you seem to be for NFHS. The fact is, I have no problem criticizing ASA where I see the need.

You know, I've been thinking about this all morning and I must say that it seems someone isn't aware of the rules.

To begin, the only time ASA mentions forcing an ejected player or coach to leave the area is if there is a flagrant act of misconduct. Makes sense to eliminate the aggrevating party from the equation.

Secondly, why shouldn't an ejection be punitive? Umpires don't, or at least shouldn't, just walk on the field and pick out people that will not finish the game that day. A player or coach has to do something pretty bad to be tossed for USC. In some cases, a player will do something which may actually endanger the well-being of another player, umpire or coach. Why shouldn't they be ejected and forced to leave?

When a coach or player is ejected, that means they can no longer take part in the game in any way, shape or form. Go ahead, try finding a coach/player who can sit on the bench or stand along the fence and keep their mouthes shut or not offer information to a teammate or antagonize the opponent.

Maybe we should have the umpire check with the UN or French consulate when a situation calling for an ejection exists. That way we can avoid upsetting or offending anyone. Oh, that's right, we won't be doing that anytime soon!


Ejections are nothing new and every player and coach know that is the result of unsportsmanlike conduct. If you cannot live with the thought of ejecting a youth player or coach, maybe you should consider another game to officiate 'cause as Tom was told, them's the rules and you have to make the call.

[Dakota]

There are times when it would be helpful in game control to be able to restrict to the bench, but not as an alternative to ejection, but as an alternative to a warning. IOW, a warning with a bit of a bite.

I don't call adult softball, so I can't comment on whether or not it would be useful there. But I can comment on the use of the restriction to the bench in NFHS v the warning in ASA JO.

(As an aside, if a coach or player steps fully into the flagrant misconduct arena, I have no qualms about ejecting them. In HS ball, this usually carries with it a suspension from the following game as well, but the players and coaches all know this. Likewise in ASA tournaments - it usually is an ejection for the remainder of the tourney.)

I've used the bench restriction in HS ball, and it works well. The high schools, however, generally are not allowed to eject in the out of sight/sound sense with the players, since there may be no adult available for supervision. Similar problem for ejecting a coach, since HS ball will not allow the team to play without an adult in the dugout. So, in a sense, the bench restriction option is a necessity due to these factors.

That does not alter my opinion that it is a helpful tool in the right situations.

[Edited by Dakota on Nov 5th, 2004 at 01:58 PM]

[WestMichBlue]

MIKE: " When dealing with high school ball, the sponsoring association (school) is liable, by law, for any child under their charge any time that individual is on the property (including real estate, transportation device or area secured for an event) or taking part in a sponsored activity. Hence, the rules must be in line with those responsibilities or the school could not conduct their athletic events under their code.

IOW, the rules cannot dictate that a child be sent away from the required supervision of an adult recognized by the school as the responsible party. In turn, the same applies to the coach as the rules cannot deprive the team of the required supervision. This is why a coach cannot just leave the field and let some parent or fan take over for him/her."

You are correct, Mike that high school rules must take into account the liability of school for the student.

Perhaps you are not aware that whether a player is restricted or ejected, they remain in the dugout. A player will not be removed from the supervision of the coach. A restricted coach must remain on the bench, however an ejected coach leaves the area. A school appointed replacement finishes the game; if none is available the game is forfeited.

What I have discussed is that the NFHS has a two-tier penalty situation for unsporting conduct.

They list 12 minor infractions (bat throwing, fake tag, jewelry, helmet removal, un-reported sub, etc) for which the umpire can issue a warning to the coach and restrict the next player guilty of those infractions.

They list 6 infractions, including arguing balls and strikes or taunting, etc. in which the umpire uses his judgment to determine the seriousness of the violation and then can either eject immediately, or issue a warning to the offender, and eject that person for the next offense.

Finally, there are three offenses (malicious contact, wearing metal cleats, and fighting) that are automatic immediate ejection.

Once a player has been removed from the game via either restriction or ejection, the NFHS is through with them. However, the State or the school may take additional action. In Michigan a restricted player’s penalty ends at the end of the game and she is eligible to play again in the next game. However, an ejected player is through for the rest of that day, and the next day of competition.

Umpires must complete and file Ejection Reports with both the school and the State. Twice a year the State publishes an Ejection Tally by school and by sport. Not the type of list your want your school to make.

I have no problem with ASA rules for adults; if they go over the line – boot ‘em out of the game and let the League or Tournament decide their future play. But if I have to deal with, say 14U players, I prefer the latitude the NFHS rules give me. I prefer the ability to take corrective action rather than punitive.

WMB

[WestMichBlue]

Dakota: "The high schools, however, generally are not allowed to eject in the out of sight/sound sense with the players, since there may be no adult available for supervision. Similar problem for ejecting a coach, since HS ball will not allow the team to play without an adult in the dugout"

Please read the book. NFHS rules specifically state that a restricted or ejected player remains in the dugout. It is not the high schools that do this; it is your job as an umpire to put the player in the dugout for the rest of the game. Period.

The rules also state that if you eject a coach he/she is to leave the area. Period. Your job as an umpire is to insure that the coach leaves the area.

Your decision as to eject or restrict is based on the specific rule violation; it is not an option for you to pick and choose penalties - other than the 6 violations I noted where you decide the seriousness of the violation before determining the penalty.

WMB

[Dakota]

Originally posted by WestMichBlue
Please read the book.

You know, if you would actually read what I write instead of composing your slam in your head it would help. I was not giving a dissertation on the rules, but talking about the rationale behind them. If you can tolerate another indication of greater than a HS education, the term is in loco parentis, which drives how the high schools handles these kinds of situations.

[WestMichBlue]

Mike: "If you cannot live with the thought of ejecting a youth player or coach, maybe you should consider another game to officiate"

I am not too proud to admit that I never want to kick a youth player out of the game. I have, but only in the case of gross malfeasance (ie., two football players masquerading as baseball players trying to take each other out at home plate.) I’ve only benched one high school coach in my career. Not that I haven’t had reason, but that I’ve managed to diffuse the situation and keep them in the game. (Now if you want to see my “notches” for Rec, Travel, or Adult games, that is a different story! )

As I said, ejection is a terrible penalty for a high school kid; it’s not reversible and we need to insure that it is only used when absolutely necessary.

A few years ago my then 14 yo freshman granddaughter moved up to pitch for the JV. She pitched the first game and was on the bench for the second of a DH. But in the 4th inning the coach wanted her bat and sent her in. Unfortunately the coach was distracted by something and failed to report the substitution. When protested by the defensive team, the umpire (wrongly) called her out and ejected her. Suddenly this big tough ballplayer is standing in front of me with tears streaming down her face. All she wanted to do was play ball, and she had no idea why she was being punished for a rule she didn’t understand. I talked to the coach after the game and told her the correct rule; and I suggest that if the umpire failed to file an ejection report that she let the girl play the next game. (Pretty safe bet; if the umpire isn’t smart enough to know the rules, he probably doesn’t know how to file the report.)

Last spring one of our umpires ejected a player, and coaches and parents at a subsequent game that I was calling really verbally assaulted me. (They knew I was an officer in our association and they were ticked, to say the least.) Seems as though their star player, a 16 yo junior was coming home and the catcher was blocking the base path. The runner attempted to go around the catcher, but the throw pulled the catcher into the path of the runner. They collided violently, the catcher went down, the ball went away, and the runner fell over the catcher onto the plate. The umpire immediately called the runner out and ejected her. When the coach objected, the umpire said that he would not be responsible for a possible concussion and he was not going to allow any rough play.

Now when you make a bone-headed call and it costs the team an out, or even a run, it doesn’t have long lasting consequences. But this girl lost four games; a significant part of the short Midwest high school playing season. All she was doing was following the rules and playing the game the way she had been taught.

Two bad calls by ASA umpires doing HS balls; two kids penalized. There are more appropriate ways to call youth games.

WMB