Coach problem with umpire

[DaveASA/FED]

Ok, here is the situation. I am UIC for small rec league as most rural leagues I wear many hats, so i also coach a team. We are having a round robin tourney (only 3 teams in league). To make a long story as short as possible I have 4 adult umpires two of which coach in this league and one that can only do Tuesday nights. I decided not to umpire game as I have a team in the tourney, and also not to let the other umpire with a team in it umpire any of the 3 games. 1st Tourney game last night one coach is one of my umpires other has talked to me about PU's strike zone and not happy that he is doing their game. I am sitting behind the plate on scorers bench. One coach comes up behind me and says something to my PU, well I send him back to the dugout. I watched the whole game and I think his zone was a little tighter than what I would have called, but it was better than a lot of people I have worked with! Anyway there were 3 close calls in the field all of which I agreed with, maybe 10 balls that were close enough for my outside corner but he was very consistant on his zone. Anyway it was a good called game by both umpires. Coach (who lost) was very upset that PU did his game, said I should have done it (don't you know it I tried to stay out of it and now it's my fault I didn't do it) anyway my main question is there is a game tomorrow night between my team and this coaches team. Guess who is scheduled for it, yep you got it the exact same two umpires! My quesiton is should I try to find a replacement or stick with my schedule?? My first thought is there is no way I am giving in and rescheduling it. But the other side of that is now my PU (3rd year doing pretty good IMO) is second guessing himself. My FU 2nd year 16 year old girl, could care less she has the perfect umpire attitude!! But I am worried that another game with him will hurt my PU's confidence. What would you do??

And I know this is an issue with coaching and umpiring and in a perfect world I wouldn't do both but in small league USA you have to do both some times!!

[Dakota]

I'm not a UIC, so this answer is from the perspective of "what if it was me the coach didn't like."

I, personally, would be offended if you made any change to accomodate the coach.

The most you should even consider would be to swap BU/PU assignments for the game.

JMNUICO (just my non-UIC opinion).

[FUBLUE]

If I were PU and you told me we were switching...I'd walk. I'm scheduled for the plate, I'm doing the plate, unless by mutual agreement you both decide it would be best.

If you do switch umpires/replace them, then you've destroyed umpire who you said is still doing a good job. Keep him on the dish!

[Skahtboi]

I, too, wouldn't change a thing. Look at it as a growing experience for both the coach and the PU.

[DaveASA/FED]

That is what I thought! I know that is how I feel, I was getting asked by other board memebers who don't want confrontation. The only reason I even thought about it was my PU is starting to doubt himself and I don't want to get him to be another 3 year and out umpire, I think he will be good especially if he progresses as much in the next 3 years!

[LMan]

...if you switch, that umpire will probably walk, if he's got any dignity. Especially since both of you know he did a fine job in the game you observed.

Coaches are plentiful. A good, knowlegable umpire is a wonderful commodity and harder to find....which is more valuable to your organization in the long run?

[Bagman62]

"Stand by Your Man" As our Association just learned in a large rec tournament.Umpires that coach can be the biggest pain in the A$$.
Short term memory is gone and the strike zone is better called from the Dugout and the Dugout, Coaches Box and any place other than the field is the best position for calling Safes and Outs.
If this umpire is getting better he will get much more heat over the years, support him now because he needs it now to become a long term umpire.

[SamNVa]

Why don't you just ask your umpire if he feels comfortable doing the plate for the game? If he says yl then give him little pep talk and tell him to go for it, If he says no, then ask him if he would be all right with switching positions with the FU and go from there.

SamC

[LMan]

Hmmm. I'm not sure I'd deliberately put an ump in that position, but if I did, I'd be very interested in his reaction to the question

[DaveASA/FED]

Well I did that last night. I flat out asked him if he was alright calling that game. He said yes, I told him I would be behind him (in spirit not literially!) and that I thought he was doing a great job. So we will see how it goes tonight!! hopefully better than last night, whole other story in goes along with Bagman's comment the other coach was a true a$$ on a interference issue. Runner hits my SS no call, after the play I ask for time it's granted I ask FU, "Was there contact between the runner and my SS?" he said he didn't see them touch, I asked "Would you check with PU to see if there was maybe he saw something you were blocked from?" He went to PU who called the runner out and sent R1 back to 3rd base. other coach went nuts, let's see I was forcing FU to go to partner, I was umpiring the game form the dugout.......It was ugly. And yes you guessed it the coache freaking out is my other "adult" umpire! I think I am going to get out of UIC next year and jsut be hired help, I don't think the headaches outway the enjoyment I get from it anymore!!

[FUBLUE]

Originally posted by DaveASA/FED
I think I am going to get out of UIC next year and jsut be hired help, I don't think the headaches outway the enjoyment I get from it anymore!!

DaveASA/FED--

Do what you wish, but if we continue to let the a$$ coaches to run leagues and assign their buddies as umpires, no one will ever learn the game.

I do an instructional league...10, 12, 14...and I often work with rookie umpires. In three years, I've seen one of 8 return for the next year...all have been run off by coaches.

Fortunately, the guy who schedules umpires (also a coach and umpire) doesn't accept it...he'll get on coaches for chewing on umpires.

If it weren't for him, we would be where we were three years ago...coach gets mad at you, hires another official (which happened to be the first assignor/coach's husband) to call game...stuck around and watched, and guess who won? Yep, and they beat the team which hadn't been scored on all year...beat them by 12. Huh, weird!

[LMan]

I'd be disappointed if your ump said anything BUT "I want to work that game". Good for him.

I'd think after a confrontational game, you would have to want to work the next one with that coach(s) again...you have to get back in the fire and show the coaches that you wont be intimidated. If you dont, they'll figure you were scared off (even if you have a legit reason) and then they think they have you by the short ones....

AFA your game last night, I would have no issue with a coach 'lobbying' for another ump's input (if done so respectfully) - thats part of working the game. Its totally the ump's call on whether to accede to his request. The other coach was just angry he didnt think of it first *wink*

[TexBlue]

I may be a littel bull headed on this, but if the umpire did a good game, there shouldn't be a reason to pull him, just because a coach doesn't like him. Now, since it seems like almost all the umpires are coaches in this league, it might be better to get some outside help from another source, for this round robin. Experienced help.

2 weeks ago, I ejected a coach and got pulled off the field because he was about to play the next game too. His own coaches told the TD I should have thrown him earlier. Parents from both teams said the same thing. My partner was in amazement the coach stayed in as long as he did. When I got pulled off the field, I started packing up my gear. The UIC told me that I was going to another field. No way. I'm going home. A UIC should not run from coaches or let them run him. The other 2 coaches on the team actually went and asked for me back on the field. After about a 45 minute discussion with the UIC, I stayed. Not on the field I started on, but I stayed. I got this guy later on, and he started pushing immediately. I was firm and fair. He finally started yelling at my score keeper, who was doing a good job. I then told him to get back into the coach's box and don't come to the plate again. He crossed his arms, stood there and stared at me. I just put my ole mask on my shoulder and walked up to him and informed him he had 5 seconds to get started towards the box, or he was gonna force me to do it again. Very calm, very quiet. He finally got started to the box. Got half way there and yelled at me again about the scorekeeper. Just as quietly, I went to the head coach and told him to get the guy off the field, he wasn't coachin' no more. No hassle, no argument. The head coach told me again, I should have done it earlier.

The reason for the story, is, if you let a coach dictate, he'll keep on dictating. This clown thought I was gonna back down, because he got me off the field once already. He just didn't realize the true amount of redneck that is in me. There is just too much fun to be had on the field to let a jerk like this ruin it for the girls, the parents and the fans. A coach shold be listened to, but not obeyed. If you're the UIC, do what you think is best for your games, the girls and the umpires.

Again, get some umpires with no conflict of interest. This will make a world of difference in the demeanor on the field. Even if they do call an impartial, fair and consistent game, it alleviates all chances of accusations from folks.

[DaveASA/FED]

Rick,
Thank you for your reply and I agree with you. I know how I would have handled it if I was the umpire, as UIC I guess I was just concerned for this umpire as there are two types of umpires the ones who can take it and deal with it, calm coaches down and then throw them when they have to and ones who stop umpiring because they don't want to deal with it anymore. I wanted to make sure this guy didn't turn into the latter.
And to your point of getting someone who was not a coach, I did and that is what caused some of the trouble!! The guy I have doing plate is a coach, but in a different division. I purposely did not schedule any of the coaches to umpire any of the round robin games, or any games in their division for that matter. I actually had a coach from the Monday game complain to the Pres. That "Dave is the UIC he should have called our game." It jsut goes to show you that you can't make some people happy!

[TexBlue]

Originally posted by DaveASA/FED
It jsut goes to show you that you can't make some people happy!

Nope.