I have a couple of questions about illegal pitches and would like to hear some of your opinions on the subject. How much do you let a pitcher get by with crow hopping before saying something or calling an illegal pitch? And do you usually call it when you see it or wait for a coach to say something about it? I coach a 12 and under team and have seen a lot of games this year in that age group up to 16 and under. It seems like alot of the pitchers around here in all age groups crow hop when the pitch and most of the time it seems pretty obvious, but nothing is usually called. Most of the times in our games if we say something about it, the umpires will let it go on for the rest of the inning and then say something between innings, which corrects the problem sometimes and sometimes it doesn't. Most of the time when the pitchers change and start pitching correctly, there is a major difference in the pitches (speed and accuracy). I was just wanting to get some different points of view on the subject. Thanks

Greg

Greg,

With all due respect to you as a coach, your questions are very leading in a trollish manner. Many of us have responded to questions like this and you wouldn't believe the storm it created and the folks who came out of the woodwork for the sole purpose of trashing umpires.

So, that being said, the best response is calling it when you see it. BTW, crow-hopping isn't that easy a thing to do, especially for youngsters without it being obvious.

Here's my 2 cents. If I see illegal pitching I usually say something during warm-up's. I want the coach involved right away before the game even starts.

I called a 12U game last night. I've tried to imagine the crow hop without ever seeing it. I've seen where the pitcher would go into the windup and take a small step with the pivot foot before releasing the ball. But last night one pitcher would go into the windup, step/drag her pivot foot then release the ball, so it looked like she probably was crow hopping as the BALL RELEASE was when she put her pivot foot down (second starting point).

Her release looked like Cat Osterman's (video from another board--Ernie Parker's web site maybe?) where her delivery was being questioned as crow-hopping.

Shame on me, I didn't call any IPs. But, not having seen that kind of release before, I was not too sure.

Also, this is my third year as a sanctioned umpire, and I've been calling mostly 10U and 12B/C-level teams. If I see a pitcher start with one foot off of the pitching plate or doing something else wrong, I will tell the coach about it. But this one I was not too sure of, so I didn't say anything (except I might know who her dad is, so I will check it out!).

KathyCG,

Welcome to the board...http://www.click-smilies.de/sammlung...smiley-030.gif

Cat is a leaper, very very rarely crow hops.

I appreciate that response. I think it is a very effective approach.

NFHS | Softball Video Clips - Pitching

Watch those clips for training/examples of illegal pitches. Remember they are HS rules so you will some stepping back from the pitcher's plate, which would be illegal in most other associations.

The problem with that approach, especially as pitchers advance, is they often use an illegal motion during warmups. They are warming up, not pitching.

90% of the time a coach is crying about a crow hop.. the pitcher isnt crowing hopping... so I dont call it that 90% of the time. He's just trying to rattle the other pitcher so weaseling for an advantage and trying to use me to do it.

The other 10% of the time I saw it before you and already called it or addressed it in some way (depending on what level/type of play).

:cool:

Warning IP's during warms ups is a waste of time IMO. Ive seen pitchers warm up from 2nd base, many walk through.

It serves no purpose.

shoot.. 99% of the time the coaches are crying about crow hopping when its actually a leap. and these are the people that are suppose to be instructing?
But, i dont use the term "leap"... its "coach she had her pivot foot off the ground before the release of the ball" ...that makes em scratch their heads.

Call the illegal pitch when you see it. Call it early, call it every time you see it, make it stop.

KathyCG:
I echo MichaelVA's sentiments.....
When you see illegal...call illegal. Call it loud, call it with confidence and authority. If you don't call IP's when you see them you can't control the game. I mean let's be honest, each coach always thinks that the other team's pitcher is illegal, and wastes no time *****ing to you about it.Call IP's early, and the noise from the benches will quiet down.
But most importantly, do study the pitching rules for whatever code you're working...learn and understand the differences between a leap and a crowhop. Watch whatever video that's out there on illegal on pitching that you can. Become an expert...know more about what is AND isn't an IP than the coaches who are doing the complaining.
Welcome to the forum...have a great season.

Kathy isn't going to read your post, I have a feeling, since her last post was almost 5 years ago. This is a thread that was long since dead, that recently got resurrected.

you never know... :cool:

Yeah, she might have changed her id, like to wade... :)