2 Coaches 1 Umpire - What do you do?

[kellerumps]

Happened to me a couple of weeks ago. I had a play at the plate where both defensive coaches disagreed with my call. Once time was granted, I had stereo coaches...One in each ear complaining. My partner(who was very young...The Misses was on another diamond) was standing out by 2nd base.

My question is this. If your partner gets double teamed by the coaches.....What do you do?

Doesn't matter if you think they kicked the call or don't like them for whatever reason.

Like I said...I'm on a roll tonight.

[LT]

Your partner MUST be there to help move one of the coaches back to the coaches box or dugout...depends where they came from.

Your partner should hustle...run...to your side and join you in moving one coach back to where they came from...and once you have one coach talking to you...partner makes sure the other coach doesn't attempt to join your conversation again.

The coaching staff have to see the umpires as a team and work as a team.

[Dakota]

If I see more than one person closing in on my partner, I will move to within earshot to see if he needs help. If so, I will move the assistant coach or the other team's coach, or the players, etc., away from the conversation.

If I'm alone (or have an AWOL partner) I turn to the head coach and tell him that I will talk with him only, and only one-on-one, and to please ask his assistant to return to the coach's box or dugout. If the other team's coach(s) try to get involved, I will similarly shoo them away.

Most of the time, if done in a calm and assertive manner, it works without problems.

[LDUB]

If one two coaches are up in your face yelling at you, all you have to do is eject the assistant coach. That will get him out of there, then all you have to do is camly explain yourself to the manager.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally posted by LDUB
If one two coaches are up in your face yelling at you, all you have to do is eject the assistant coach. That will get him out of there

You're kidding, right? The only way that coach is going to leave immediately after being ejected is if you turn the the manager and say, "Before anything else is discussed, that coach has got to be gone, and by the way, he's on the clock."

I don't suggest anyone put themselves in that situation, but like R1 forced at 2B, they aren't just going to go poof and disappear because you eject them.

They may quite down, or walk away an pout, but if you get to the point where you need to eject someone, I believe you should take care of that piece of business before moving on with the discussion.

[mo99]

Before any discussion,the assistant coach has got to go.I make it clear in the pre-game that I will discuss a play with one coach(head coach)and if approached by anyone else they will be ejected.I have zero tolorance with any other team personnel,other than the head coach.I expect my partner to back me up as I will do the same for them.

Jeff
NCAA Umpire
NFHS Umpire
ASA Umpire

[Steve M]

It's got to be a 1-on-1 discussion. In a men's game a while ago, I made a ruling that was contrary to what somebody had ruled earlier in the day - don't we just love cleaning up a mess created by "myth masters"? - the head coach, his assistant, and several defensive players started moving toward me. I put up a hand and said "Gentlemen, I will speak with the captain or the heasd coach only." That ended that potential gang-bang.

I've also had partners who didn't realize that they should not allow themselves to be approached that way. I've entered the discussion by stating something like this "The conversation with my partner must be a 1-on-1 discussion. As you are the head coach, you will send everyone else away before this conversation continues. If you choose not to, the conversation is over and I will handle what needs to be handled."

I'm of the opinion that an umpire with a "command presence" does not often get charged, have coaches confront & yell, and so on. When it does happen, we recognize it & handle it.

[LDUB]

Originally posted by IRISHMAFIA

You're kidding, right? The only way that coach is going to leave immediately after being ejected is if you turn the the manager and say, "Before anything else is discussed, that coach has got to be gone, and by the way, he's on the clock."

I don't suggest anyone put themselves in that situation, but like R1 forced at 2B, they aren't just going to go poof and disappear because you eject them.

They may quite down, or walk away an pout, but if you get to the point where you need to eject someone, I believe you should take care of that piece of business before moving on with the discussion.

You're kidding, right? You allow assistant coaches to get up in you ear and argue a call with you? It is one thing when the manager is up in your ear yelling at you, he better watch what he says, because anyone who yells at me is close to getting tossed. But when assistant coach is up in my face yelling, I am getting rid of him right then.

And if neither one of the two guys who are in my face is the manager, then we might be having a doulbe ejection.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally posted by LDUB

You're kidding, right? You allow assistant coaches to get up in you ear and argue a call with you? It is one thing when the manager is up in your ear yelling at you, he better watch what he says, because anyone who yells at me is close to getting tossed. But when assistant coach is up in my face yelling, I am getting rid of him right then.

And if neither one of the two guys who are in my face is the manager, then we might be having a doulbe ejection.

I didn't say to allow him to remain there, did I? I simply responded to your assertion that ejecting that coach is THE problem solver.

If I have two people in my face, my partner better be on his/her way.

I do not demand that I talk only to the manager. Some managers just happen to be the guy up stepped up and was capable of writing up a line up. However, I will explain it only one time. If someone else wants to know about it, they can talk to the player/coach/manager who talked to me.

ALSO, I will NEVER give warnings or ultimatums in a pre-game meeting. A pre-game meeting is to introduce yourself, exchange, examine and verify line-up cards, discuss GROUND rules and flip a coin, if necessary. That is it.

I believe umpires who make demands, and give what they consider to be preemptive ultimatums and warnings lack professionalism and place the manager/coach/team captain in an immediate adversarial position. Such things get to me even more when they are NOT covered by rule, but something the umpire has determined to be part of his/her game, rule book be damned.

If you have problems with profanity or such, don't threaten them. Inform them of your preference to not experience whatever offends you. Then tell them that you would prefer to not have to take official action, but will if any team member makes it necessary. You get your point across, but you have not threatened them. You have also not painted yourself into a corner of maybe not taking action in one instance, but ejecting someone else for what the participants to believe a similar/equal offense.

Rant off and jmho,

[TexBlue]

Yep, I'm with Steve and Mike on this. If I'm the one ABOUT to be double teamed, I'm gonna look to where my partner is and they better be coming towards us. That's just a matter of team mechanics. I'll take care of the double team myself. I'll tell the coaches that I'm only going to talk to one, they can decide, I don't care. And it better be fast. Usually, when I say I'll talk to someone, one of the guys leave immediately. I've never even come close to ejecting someone for this. I don't care if I talk to a head coach, asst coach or manager. They're all part of the coaching staff and have equal rights to an explanation. What I DON'T expect my partner to do is run to the group. I need a calm cool demeanor coming up, not someone whose running can only excite the situation. Like Steve said, a commanding presence is vital at this point.

If I'm with a less experienced partner and they are being surrounded, I'm gonna yell , in my best "DEAD BALL!!!" umpire's voice and tell them to only let one go up there. When I do that, they usually wait until I can walk to the group and tell them my partner will discuss it with one person. By the time I get to the group, a lot of the initial adrenalin has subsided and they are a little calmer. Now, this only happens if I see my partner being overwhelmed. If it appears that he is being very professional and in charge of the situation, I let them handle it. I'll walk up to within about 15 feet of the group, so I can hear what's being said. I do not participate until my partner comes to me. At this point, I don't even mind if the 2nd coach comes to stand beside me and talk to me. I ain't gonna say anything about the situation, except that my partner made the call and is handling it right now, with the other coach. Sometimes, all you gotta do is listen. Don't have to agree or disagree. This also gives the impression my partner is in control and that we are willing to talk it over.

I've had a lot of success with this over the years. Just remember, they're just a coach, use your psychology and they'll be eating out of your hand before the game's over. Yeah, right.

The only thing I cover in my plate speech regarding this is if they have a question, call time GET time and talk to the umpire that made the call. I highly encourage this to the coaches, explaining that we want them to understand what we saw or what rule we're enforcing. When they've heard the reasoning, they don't have to agree, just understand what happened. This covers about 20 seconds and cuts off a lot of trouble during the game.

[Edited by TexBlue on Jun 6th, 2004 at 01:46 PM]

[Skahtboi]

Rick, Steve, and Mike have said all that needs to be said regarding being double teamed by coaches and where your partner should be. Add me to that list.

[Skahtboi]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by LDUB

But when assistant coach is up in my face yelling, I am getting rid of him right then.

How do you interpret "yelling?" Is having a heated discussion about the play that just occurred considered by you to be "yelling?" How about a loud question? I also tell head coaches that I only want to hear from them at the plate meeting. However, that does not mean that I am going to toss an assistant coach for being human, and wanting to be involved in the game. As long as they behave themselves in a semi-mature manner, I will address their grievance, but only to the head coach with a stern reminder that I had better not hear such an outburst from his/her assistant again. No point to toss them simply for having a human moment, though.

Now, if they make it personal or use any language that I do not tolerate, then yes, they will be gone. But not just for wanting to be part of the game.

[kellerumps]

Wow....Great Discussion!!!!

Going back to my original play, I calmly informed the head coach that I will only speak to one of them and had better get control of his assistant. No threats were made, I just can't come up with a better way to explain myself right now.

He did so immediately and in the process, calmed down himself.

After the game, I explained to my partner what he should have done and why.

I have been in this situation several times and I like to say to the additional coach..."Hey, why don't you come talk to me right now." and then lead them away. I let them vent and I don't argue. In the end, this approach calms people down and better yet keeps them in the game.

I understand having to toss someone. More times than not, they toss themselves...However, it is our job to keep them in the ballgame whenever possible. We must be un-emotional and level headed at all times. Is it fair, nope.......But that is why we are all good at our jobs.

Hope this makes sense...I'm really tired right now.