Get the calls right? Responsibility?

[DownTownTonyBrown]

High School district tournament games yesterday, NFHS.

I had two calls at home plate yesterday that have got me thinking a little. Maybe some of you have some words of wisdom or suggestions...

Unexpectedly close game (I thought one team was going to dominate but it didn't happen) of 1-0 in the top of the 5th. Pitch bounces and gets past the catcher. It hits me in the gut and drops straight down. Catcher turns to the left searching for the passed ball. I step back to my right and see the ball where my feet were. Catcher has not found it yet. Runner is coming from 3rd. Catcher finds ball and straddles baseline with the plate a foot behind her. I'm now realizing I need to get closer to perpendicular and to 3rd to see this play... too late. I'm at about a 45 degree angle behind the catcher as runner slides. Catcher has ball in plenty of time and is in great position to make an out. Slide is head first, very flat to the ground, with one arm extended at home between the catcher's legs. I see tag on forehead of runner (not on the arm) and hand extended touching home. I call the unexpected call and rule SAFE. Coach (of what I thought would be the dominating team) of course complains so I explain what I saw.

Now it is top of 6th and the score is now 3-4 two outs... still very close. Tag play coming at home - same teams are running and tagging. Throw is coming slightly late runner should be safe. Runner, as is typical, comes in standing up... no, no, tries to slide about 2-3 feet before the plate. Lead foot catches in the dirt and bounces up and over the plate - 6 to 8 inches in the air. Throw is caught and tag is made. Again, I make the unexpected call and rule OUT. Coach is livid; fans go nuts - of course they always have been and always will be nuts, but it is an emotional moment.

Later, the better team scores 1 in the bottom of the sixth and the game ends with 3-5 score. Actually had a fan come to me after the game as I and my partner are walking away... "Hey Blue!" And I'm thinking, Oh great here comes a disgruntled parent... but he says "You made the right call." "THANKS." Okay one out of 75 bystanders think it was the right call.

So here is the question. I've seen umpires that I know make the EXPECTED calls... either because they want to make the fans and coaches and possibly the players happy or because they don't make the effort to really see what happens (generally they are lazy umpires). I look back at both of these calls and know I could have just as well made the expected call, probably not effected the overall outcome of the game (maybe), and not taken any heat from either coach or any of the fans. Nobody would have come to me after the game and said that I made the right call.

Coaches would have been happy and I would likely get a call for state tournament assignments. Now??? maybe not.

But I wouldn't have felt good about intentionally making a wrong call, or intentionally being lazy and not seeing the correct call.

What is the umpire's job? Which is the right call, the one that leads to the less controversy and pleases the most people, or the right call according to what the umpire sees - which can obviously be influenced by the amount of effort the umpire puts into getting the correct call?

Surely some of you have had similar experiences - these were not my first controversial calls. But, what say you about your experiences and the umpire's responsibility?

[alabamabluezebra]

These types of calls happen every year and I try to make the call based on what I see not on the action perceived by others. I get aggravated by umpires that rush the called based on preconceived outcomes especially when the ball beats the runner by a mile but the infielder misses the tag or tags the runner late.

Like the play at home which you described, I had a coach insist that his runner's foot broke the plane of the plate extended upward.

Another tough play is with a runner on 1st, the batter hits a ground ball to the second baseman who attempts to tag the runners missing by 6-8 inches then throws to first for the out. From their angle, the fans perceive a double play but actually you have a runner on second with one out recorded. I had a father tearing me a new one over that call until his daughter assured him that she missed the tag. He apologized for his behavior at the end of the inning.

[greymule]

I suspect we've all been there, DownTown. I think you're going to doubt yourself either way. Good philosophical question.

Passed ball, runner from 3B tries for home. Pitcher covers and quick throw from F2 beats the runner by 15 feet. Pitcher holds the glove down a foot in front of the plate, about ten inches off the ground. You see that the sliding runner's foot touches the plate a moment before her knee hits the glove. What are you going to call? Safe may be what God sees, but they call that and worse an out in the Major Leagues and nobody argues.

On the other hand, if the throw had been a little late and F1 had been unable to get the tag down in time, you'd call safe on what was pretty much the same type of late tag.

Runner stealing 3B. F5 gloves the throw and puts the glove down in front of 3B. Runner slides, and an instant before F5's foot would have hit the glove, F5 lifts the glove to show you the ball. It's an out in MLB. Are you going to call safe in girls' rec FP?

Of course, even if you're the only one in the park who after a tag at 2B sees the ball bounce on the ground and right back into the glove, you call safe.

Are you going to call out on the LBR if, with the ball in the circle, the runner on 1B lifts her foot an inch off the bag for a quarter of a second in order to place it on the front edge in preparation for the pitch?

Last year in a SP playoff I called safe at 2B on a DP attempt when F4 straddled the bag with 10 inches of daylight between each foot and the bag. You'd have thought I pulled the Brinks robbery, even though the defense admitted he in fact had not been on the bag. I'll stick with my decision on that one, though.

Last summer, SP tourney, home team way ahead. Visitors' F3 lifts his foot off 1B a step before the runner gets there. The throw was good; he could have held the bag easily. But he pulled the old "we're all professionals here; everybody knows that at our level you can leave 1B early."

I thought for an instant but then called out. A couple of guys on the offense started to say something, but some of their teammates told them they'd have called an out, too.

Of course, had they been behind by 2 instead of ahead by 21, they might have felt different. I also probably would have made a different call. (And I also suspect F3 wouldn't have pulled his foot.)

[SWFLguy]

basically these kind of plays boil down to being either:
1) runner touches plate/base before fielder makes the tag, or
2) fielder makes the tag before runner touches plate/base.
You must call what you see !
If I cannot "separate" the two events in my mind-- I call SAFE.
The wildest ones at home plate are when neither the runner
touches the plate nor the fielder makes a tag---- you hesitate-
make a safe call and wait to see what happens.
Isn't umpiring fun ??

[chuck chopper]

I call it the way I saw it, and not the way they saw it. Yep, we all get grief about that but when I'm driving home I know I did the right thing..and come back tomorrow for more.
And as mentioned when its all over some spectators know I did the unpopular but right call.

[Panda Bear]

You have to call what you see. If an evaluator is downgrading you for making the correct call when unpopular, relative to future assignments, then I'd be asking for direct advice as to exactly what calls and rules he wants made contrary to fact, and what the supporting directive is, so that when one of these obvious departures is eventually questioned, you can provide the justification.

On the close call with the unexpected outcome, I often add after "SAFE" something like "Pulled the foot" or "Hand beat tag" that explains what I saw. Doesn't mean the disadvantaged coach agrees, but at least he knows what I perceived, and I don't seem to get many questions once they know the basis for the call.

[wadeintothem]

You did the correct thing. Believe or not.. coaches have some respect for umps who call it as they see it, even if they dont agree.

I give you an alternative example.

Last month I was watching my daughters team play - I am Joe Fan. The umpire is a HS kid obviously not very well learned or good at umpiring.

Someone on my daughters team come sliding into home plate and is tagged out by a foot. It's not even a close play. I am standing to the side near the bench but outside the fence of course and yell "SAFE" (yes the pangs of guilt are overwhelming) ... the ump makes the call safe. I saw it, both coaches saw it, everyone knew it was an out.. but I yelled safe and the ump was affected by that yell.

So while you could shade your calls to what YOU THINK the people want you to call or what you think they saw.. (I yelled safe even though I knew it was an out - just because) you will not be a respected umpire and everyone will know you dont know what you are doing.

Call it as you see it. Period.

[TexBlue]

You know guys, we're there to make the controversial calls and enforce the unpopular rules. If it weren't for that, they wouldn't need us. We're there to keep it a level playing field, according to rules. If it was a majority vote, they would just put up little boxes in the bleachers and let the fans vote. You gotta call what you saw and that is that!

[ChampaignBlue]

You guys must have brains that work a lot faster than mine. I'm generally not in a position to think about the consequences of a call before I make the call without it looking like a really, really late call.

[TexBlue]

Originally posted by ChampaignBlue
You guys must have brains that work a lot faster than mine. I'm generally not in a position to think about the consequences of a call before I make the call without it looking like a really, really late call.

Shoot, ain't nuttin' wrong with a hesitation call. The way George Studdard usedta tell us in Texas, " They ain't out til ya call 'em out!!" Or sumpin' like that.

[FUBLUE]

I read this post yesterday, and didn't think about it again until tonight. Had a varsity game, was close for a while, county rivals playing each other (in fact, of the 13 kids on each team, I know at least 6 of them were related). Anyway, Had runners on 2nd and 3rd, no outs. Fly ball to right. Catch is made and tag is good, throw is about 15 feet high coming into the plate. Goes over catchers head. Runner from second is being sent to plate. I have never been able to get all the way to first baseline before, but in the back of my mind I was remembering your post. I busted my fat rear (all 300 pounds of it) and got position. Flip from catcher is there, but tag is way high. Fans go nuts thinking she is out. Catcher told them the tag was high, they start arguing with her! She told them to shut up! I loved it.

Best catcher I ever had.

[WestMichBlue]

Very interesting conversation that causes me to reflect deeply about unexpected calls and umpire ratings.

This afternoon, Varsity game, visitors up 4-0 top of 7th, one on, one out. Ground ball to short; throw pulls F3 off base into path of B-R. They collide. B-R finally disengages and manages to touch 1B.

I am PU looking right down the line and see that F3 has ball in glove held close to her belly. She never tagged the B-R! Partner is looking at me for help; I give a small safe signal in front of my body; he goes with it. All hell breaks loose. After conferences Home Coach knows that I made the call and he is ticked. "Its obvious that they collided; therefore the B-R was obviously tagged."

So instead of 2 outs, they now have 1 out and two runners on. Before the rally is over, the runner that should have been out and one after what should have been the 3rd out have scored. The home team is facing a 7-0 deficit in the bottom of the 7th; too much to overcome against a very good pitcher.

The expected call was OUT; everyone assumed the out; even the visiting coach would not have complained. I called a good game; even though he lost, I would have expected a good rating from the home coach. But not now!

Next year, when I am a tenth of a point in overall ratings below the last umpire to fill a slot in the State Tournaments, do I think back to this call? Or a similiar one last week that led to a victory for one side, and a coach ejection on the other. Do you think that I received a good rating in that game?

Is it worth it? The calls were technically correct, but they went against the expected call. The expected call could have been sold with little controversy; the unexpected generated controversy.

Can you train yourself to make the expected call? Or does you mind lock in on what you actually see and you make the call before you can think through all the possiblities?

WMB

[Edited by WestMichBlue on May 13th, 2004 at 02:47 AM]

[Dakota]

This is a very interesting thread. The kind of thread for which I am very grateful to have this forum. We could never have this kind of insider discussion on places like eteamz.

I have a couple of thoughts.

First, I'd like to think my personal integrity would outweigh any consideration of umpire ratings / post season assignments. If I ever find myself making calls in order to brown nose the coach, I'll know it is time to hang up my mask.

Second, during the game my instincts take over. I'll call what I see. That is not to say I will always see things correctly. In WMB's example, I may very well have called the out, but not to make the expected call, but maybe because I wasn't watching quite as closely, or because I rushed my timing, or ... (various other mistakes). IOW, it would not have been because I decided to call against what I saw.

What we really have here is a flaw in the system that uses coaches to rate the performance of umpires. I realize it is cost prohibitive to have umpire evaluators at every varsity game, but the coach's ratings need to have some kind of counterbalance.

[whatgameyouwatchinblue]

allright ill be the one to go against the grain on this thread. collision like that and your partner looks at you for help? if i was you i would be afraid for you partner for looking for help. my advice for you is to go to the main page officiating.com and read Carl Childress article the worst call i ever saw. its a great article.

[Dakota]

Originally posted by whatgameyouwatchinblue
my advice for you is to go to the main page officiating.com and read Carl Childress article the worst call i ever saw. its a great article.

I've read it. It is a provocative article, but when you boil it down, what it says is please the crowd when you can get away with it. Carl's answer to this thread seems like it would be obvious.

[Edited by Dakota on May 13th, 2004 at 12:04 PM]