double base type question

[Little Jimmy]

This happened yesterday. A two part question. Fed rules.

Part one. No runners on. I'm in the field. Batter hits ball to pitcher who easily fields and throws to first. F3 does the typical strech to receive the ball but drops the routine throw. Ball rolls about 6 inches into foul territory. F3 picks up ball and reaches back with her foot touching only orange bag (from my angle anyway: more on that later ). Runner, thinking she was an easy out, stops 10-15 feet away and starts walking to her dugout. Coach sees what I see and tells her to get on the base, which she does. I have given no call until batter reached base, then I signal safe. Given this information, do you agree or disagree with my call? I seem to remember a recent discussion saying this was not a time orange bag could be used.


Part two. After I satisfied the offensive coach that I made the right call (if I did), home ump calls me in and says from his angle F1 touched the part of the orange bag that was directly over the white chalk line. In other words the chalk line was a few inches too far to the right. He brought up the idea that if we were using the line as it was then that portion of the bag was actually in fair territory. After thinking about it for a moment I agreed with his logic and reversed myself calling the runner out( and then explained everything to the defensive coach). Given this information, do you agree or disagree with my reversal? By the way I definitely think we blew not seeing the misplaced chalk line before the game started.

[TexBlue]

Fed Rule 8-2 Art 12 Exceptions (2) says that if a missed throw pulls the defensive player to the foul ground, the BR can use white, Defense can use Orange.

Just because the line is a little off, the white and orange part of the base should stay the same, otherwise you open up a whole new, ugly can of worms. Stay on White or Stay on Orange. Don't give 2 1/32 inches of Orange to the defense because of the foul line. You'll never be able to convince anyone of that. They'll still be out or safe, but you'll never convince anyone of it. Don't create problems, Heck, they'll find you often enough, anyway.

[whiskers_ump]

Chalked lines should run only to the base from home, then
from the opposite side of the base towards foul poles.
Not through or over a base.

Naturally, this is JMHO.

[CecilOne]

By definition, fair ends at the outside of the "white" base, so if the line is wrong, tough.

[Bagman62]

You said "Part one. No runners on. I'm in the field. Batter hits ball to pitcher who easily fields and throws to first. F3 does the typical strech to receive the ball but drops the routine throw." In my opinion a dropped throw is not an errant throw therefore I would have a safe call as the defense never touched the White Bag and without the errant throw the Orange Bag does not apply.

I also echo comments regarding White line.

[CecilOne]

As we can't agree on what "errant throw" means anyway and the intent of the rule is to avoid collisions; I would disagree and allow the defense use of the foul side because the ball ended up in foul ground.

[mcrowder]

I had brought up a couple of months ago a situation where the "errant" throw from F6 hits the base of the wall which happens to be concrete on one particular field, bouncing conveniently back to F3, who is now touching orange, reaching toward foul ground. This made sense as an out to me, but I was summarily shouted down by this forum.

[TexBlue]

Originally posted by mcrowder
I had brought up a couple of months ago a situation where the "errant" throw from F6 hits the base of the wall which happens to be concrete on one particular field, bouncing conveniently back to F3, who is now touching orange, reaching toward foul ground. This made sense as an out to me, but I was summarily shouted down by this forum.

Guess I missed that one. I've got an out on that too. So, I guess you might have been summarily shouted down, but not unanimously.

[Bagman62]

We may never agree what anerrant throw is but a "Dropped Ball" should not be an errant throw because errant throws are not caught or dropped, missed yes. JMHO

[TexBlue]

Originally posted by Bagman62
We may never agree what anerrant throw is but a "Dropped Ball" should not be an errant throw because errant throws are not caught or dropped, missed yes. JMHO

But this was Federation. The rule I quoted, Rule 8-2 Art 12 Exceptions (2) says missed throw, which would qualify here, I believe. I think you just gotta go with what we think the intent of the rule is. I believe they are trying to avoid collisions which could result in injuries. Didn't look up ASA, since this was FED, but I think the intent is the same, if not the wording.

Feel free to correct me.

[TwoBits]

So let me get this straight: I know that the BR may use the white portion of the bag if necessary to avoid a collision. If she does, then the defense may use the orange portion?