Called strike

Fastpitchnutz · #1 (**permalink**) Sun Jan 25, 2004, 09:44pm

The pitcher throws a screw ball that clips the front edge of the plate waist high and then hits the batter, is it still a strike?

Thanks,

FPN

IRISHMAFIA · #2 (**permalink**) Sun Jan 25, 2004, 11:01pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Fastpitchnutz
The pitcher throws a screw ball that clips the front edge of the plate waist high and then hits the batter, is it still a strike?

Thanks,

FPN

Speaking ASA.

If the umpire rules it a strike, it is a strike.

If not, HBP.

WestMichBlue · #3 (**permalink**) Sun Jan 25, 2004, 11:04pm

Illegal Pitch! For the pitcher to throw that much of a screwball she must have been outside the 24" plate width.

Actually, this is a pretty tough question. By your own statement, the ball did not hit the batter while the ball was in the strike zone, nor did the batter swing at it; so the logical assumption, using ASA 74 g & i, would be hit batter.

However, rule 8.1.F is worded such that if the ball is not called a strike, the batter becomes a batter-runner. Therefore, if it is a strike, then the batter goes nowhere.

In that I don't know, I do know what I would do. Being a good umpire, I hesitate making calls, by which time the batter has been hit, at which time I immediately call dead ball and send batter to 1B. If anyone asks, the pitch was a ball.

WMB

Fastpitchnutz · #4 (**permalink**) Sun Jan 25, 2004, 11:12pm

I should have stated that this is ASA, 2nd year 12s. When she throws it she is within the pitchers mound. If it was to hit the batter it would be on the back side as it tails to the batter. If she can throw it as a strike (per ASA) even if it hits the batter after going through the strike zone, why would it be called a ball?

Thanks,

FPN

whiskers_ump · #5 (**permalink**) Sun Jan 25, 2004, 11:45pm

I should have stated that this is ASA, 2nd year 12s. When she throws it she is within the pitchers mound. If it was to hit the batter it would be on the back side as it tails to the batter. If she can throw it as a strike (per ASA) even if it hits the batter after going through the strike zone, why would it be called a ball?
_____________________________________________

Is this a batter that crowded the plate? I am having
problems visualizing a ball crossing the plate for a strike
and contacting the batter. However, if any part of the
batters' body is over the plate in the zone, then that is
and would be a strike if it hit the batter. If she swung
at the pitch and it hit her, it would be a dead ball strike.

BigUmpJohn · #6 (**permalink**) Sun Jan 25, 2004, 11:48pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Fastpitchnutz
I should have stated that this is ASA, 2nd year 12s. When she throws it she is within the pitchers mound. If it was to hit the batter it would be on the back side as it tails to the batter. If she can throw it as a strike (per ASA) even if it hits the batter after going through the strike zone, why would it be called a ball?

Just to keep things moving, I guess.

But, as stated earlier in the thread, if the umpire thinks that the pitch would've been a strike if it didn't hit the batter, it's a strike.

Del-Blue · #7 (**permalink**) Mon Jan 26, 2004, 04:46am

Glen, I'm with you. I have a hard time thinking a ball would break that much. I would probably call it a ball, and HBP. If questioned, it was inside.
Bob

blue · #8 (**permalink**) Mon Jan 26, 2004, 08:20am

I'm also having a hard time imagining a a ball that clips any part of the plate and hitting the batter if the batter is not hanging over the strike zone. Especially at the 12U level. If that batter is not hanging over the plate, its going to be an inside pitch and HBP.

greymule · #9 (**permalink**) Mon Jan 26, 2004, 08:41am

Batter standing well off the plate. Pitch passes through the strike zone and then reverses direction at an angle and hits the batter.

Strike. Dead ball.

Roger Greene · #10 (**permalink**) Mon Jan 26, 2004, 09:14am

Quote:

Originally posted by greymule
Batter standing well off the plate. Pitch passes through the strike zone and then reverses direction at an angle and hits the batter.

Strike. Dead ball.

I've seen some pretty good pitchers, but if that 12 yoa pitcher can defeat the laws of physics like that, then she needs to go directly to the Women's Professional league ASAP.. She is losing a lot of money playing amature.

Roger Greene

IRISHMAFIA · #11 (**permalink**) Mon Jan 26, 2004, 12:08pm

Anybody consider that the batter may have been standing on the inside portion in the back of the box?

BTW, rule 7.4 only directs the umpire when to call a strike. Rule 8.1 specifies when a batter becomes a BR and it only notes the ball be in the strike zone, not the batter.

The pitch/play as described can only be ruled a strike and dead ball.

gsf23 · #12 (**permalink**) Mon Jan 26, 2004, 12:15pm

That was what I was thinking. The batter is right on the edge of the box...not ver the plate and in the very back of the box. Never seen it in softball, but saw it once in a baseball game with a knuckleball.

Don't have a rule book with me, but how is the rule worded. Does it say ANY pitched ball not swung at that hits a batter or any pitched ball not swung at that is ruled a ball, that hits a batter.

Can anyone here tell me please. Thanks

IRISHMAFIA · #13 (**permalink**) Mon Jan 26, 2004, 03:15pm

Quote:

Originally posted by gsf23
That was what I was thinking. The batter is right on the edge of the box...not ver the plate and in the very back of the box. Never seen it in softball, but saw it once in a baseball game with a knuckleball.

Don't have a rule book with me, but how is the rule worded. Does it say ANY pitched ball not swung at that hits a batter or any pitched ball not swung at that is ruled a ball, that hits a batter.

Can anyone here tell me please. Thanks

It would not be a "ball", but a HBP.

Rule 8.1.F in ASA's 2003 book covers the situation raised in this thread.

F. (Fast Pitch Only) When a pitched ball not swung at nor called a strike touches any part of the batter's person or clothing. It does not matter if the ball strikes the ground before hitting the batter. The batter's hands are not to be considered part of the bat.

EFFECT:
1. The ball is dead. The batter is entitled to one base withouth liability to be put out.
EXCEPTION: If no attempt is made to avoid being hit, the batter will not be awarded first base unless it is ball four.

2. If the batter is hit anywhere on the body, including the hands while swiging at a pitch, the ball is dead and a strike called. If it is strike three, the batter is out.

TexBlue · #14 (**permalink**) Mon Jan 26, 2004, 03:47pm

Assuming this pitch is possible for a 12-U pitcher, can you imagine the conversation between the offensive coach and the PU about how a ball can hit a batter and be a strike? I'd kinda like to be the BU and be close enough to hear the explanation. I think I'm probably going with the comments earlier. It waw inside and hit the batter. Take your base.

Dakota · #15 (**permalink**) Mon Jan 26, 2004, 04:17pm

The well-known pontificator on that other game (you know who I mean, Mike), has a concept called making the expected call as part of game management. That may very well apply here.

Technically, it is a dead ball strike. If you make this call, discussion (at least) ensues... offensive coach, and since this was 12U, parents.

The expected call is a HBP, take your base. It is what everyone at the park saw except you.