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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jun 14, 2022, 04:23pm
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NFHS Softball Substitution Rule.

I have been doing some "housekeeping" in my officiating/umpiring files this month and I came across SITUATION 19 in the 2019-20 NFHS Baseball Rules Interpretations, and since NFHS Baseball and Softball Rules regarding Substitutes are somewhat different I thought I would post SITUATION 19, but not the RULING in hopes of moving the Forum out of it Summer doldrums.

SITUATION 19: Unnoticed by either team and the home plate umpire, the visiting team turns in a lineup card with eight players listed as starters and three substitute players. The visiting team had nine players on defense in the bottom of the first inning. In the top of the second inning, the home team realizes that its opponent has only eight players listed in the starting lineup. Bringing this to the attention of the home plate umpire, the home team suggests that for the remainder of the game an out should be called every time the missing spot comes to bat. The visiting team, now aware of its omission, adds to the lineup a player as the ninth defensive player. He was not one of the three substitutes listed on the lineup.

Since this is a NFHS Baseball Rules Situation, I want us to confine our RULING to NFHS Softball Rules.

Later, I will submit this SITUATION for RULINGS from NCAA and USA Softball.

MTD, Sr.
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Trumbull Co. (Warren, Ohio) Bkb. Off. Assn.
Wood Co. (Bowling Green, Ohio) Bkb. Off. Assn.
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Old Tue Jun 14, 2022, 04:43pm
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NFHS has always been about letting the players play.

No, there will not be an out in the 9th position.

We'll assume the coach (or whoever was making out the lineup card) was distracted and simply forgot to add the 9th batter. For this, s/he will receive a team warning, the player's name will be added to the 9th spot, and we'll play on.

Since it wasn't one of the 3 subs, it appears to be a simple oversight.
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Old Wed Jun 15, 2022, 06:22am
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I agree with you about it being an oversight.
The OP does not specify how far the visitors had gotten through their lineup or whether the unlisted player had any effect defensively.
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Last edited by Cecil4; Tue Jul 26, 2022 at 11:00am.
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Old Fri Jun 17, 2022, 08:53am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. View Post
I have been doing some "housekeeping" in my officiating/umpiring files this month and I came across SITUATION 19 in the 2019-20 NFHS Baseball Rules Interpretations, and since NFHS Baseball and Softball Rules regarding Substitutes are somewhat different I thought I would post SITUATION 19, but not the RULING in hopes of moving the Forum out of it Summer doldrums.

SITUATION 19: Unnoticed by either team and the home plate umpire, the visiting team turns in a lineup card with eight players listed as starters and three substitute players. The visiting team had nine players on defense in the bottom of the first inning. In the top of the second inning, the home team realizes that its opponent has only eight players listed in the starting lineup. Bringing this to the attention of the home plate umpire, the home team suggests that for the remainder of the game an out should be called every time the missing spot comes to bat. The visiting team, now aware of its omission, adds to the lineup a player as the ninth defensive player. He was not one of the three substitutes listed on the lineup.

Since this is a NFHS Baseball Rules Situation, I want us to confine our RULING to NFHS Softball Rules.

Later, I will submit this SITUATION for RULINGS from NCAA and USA Softball.

MTD, Sr.
The plate umpire should bring this up at the plate meeting. "Coach, your starting lineup only has eight players". Hopefully, a spof correction can be made there before the lineups are exchange.
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Old Fri Jun 17, 2022, 09:12am
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Originally Posted by ilyazhito View Post
The plate umpire should bring this up at the plate meeting. "Coach, your starting lineup only has eight players". Hopefully, a spof correction can be made there before the lineups are exchange.
Well, of course. But sometimes $h!t happens, which is what the OP is about.

No need to state the obvious.
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Old Sun Jun 26, 2022, 02:03pm
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Originally Posted by Tru_in_Blu View Post
Well, of course. But sometimes $h!t happens, which is what the OP is about.

No need to state the obvious.
Equally obvious, I would think is the fact that NFHS cannot legally start the game with 8 players. Nor can NCAA.

You've played an inning, so it isn't a forfeit; it can now only be a clerical error and an unreported player (sub) in that 9th position.

Warning in NFHS. In NCAA, if reported by the offended team at the right time, it can be a do-over after defensive play by the unreported player, or an out assessed to the unreported batter.

In USA Softball, where you CAN start shorthanded, you can also add a 9th when that person "arrives". It can be penalized as shorthanded until reported, it is simply unreported until reported if already using 9.
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Old Sun Jun 26, 2022, 05:25pm
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Equally obvious, I would think is the fact that NFHS cannot legally start the game with 8 players. Nor can NCAA.

So Steve, per the OP, the game really didn't start with 8 players, correct? We're told there were 3 subs.

Nine players took the field on defense. If the "unreported" player made a play that resulted in an out, wouldn't that have to be appealed prior to a next pitch or inning end?
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Old Tue Jun 28, 2022, 02:42pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tru_in_Blu View Post
Equally obvious, I would think is the fact that NFHS cannot legally start the game with 8 players. Nor can NCAA.

So Steve, per the OP, the game really didn't start with 8 players, correct? We're told there were 3 subs.

Nine players took the field on defense. If the "unreported" player made a play that resulted in an out, wouldn't that have to be appealed prior to a next pitch or inning end?
Under NCAA rules, that is the case. Note, I stated "it CAN be"; my presumption the offended team proceeds as required.

In my opinion, that appeal cannot happen in NFHS; reference 3-3-3. If a sub is officially in the game (although unreported) once the ball is made live after taking that position, we need to presume the unlisted starter is also officially in the game with the same stipulation. The only result of an appeal is the warning (or restrictions if a second offense) for discovery of unreported; ref 3-6-7 Penalty.
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Old Tue Jul 05, 2022, 03:26pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. View Post
I have been doing some "housekeeping" in my officiating/umpiring files this month and I came across SITUATION 19 in the 2019-20 NFHS Baseball Rules Interpretations, and since NFHS Baseball and Softball Rules regarding Substitutes are somewhat different I thought I would post SITUATION 19, but not the RULING in hopes of moving the Forum out of it Summer doldrums.

SITUATION 19: Unnoticed by either team and the home plate umpire, the visiting team turns in a lineup card with eight players listed as starters and three substitute players. The visiting team had nine players on defense in the bottom of the first inning. In the top of the second inning, the home team realizes that its opponent has only eight players listed in the starting lineup. Bringing this to the attention of the home plate umpire, the home team suggests that for the remainder of the game an out should be called every time the missing spot comes to bat. The visiting team, now aware of its omission, adds to the lineup a player as the ninth defensive player. He was not one of the three substitutes listed on the lineup.

Since this is a NFHS Baseball Rules Situation, I want us to confine our RULING to NFHS Softball Rules.

Later, I will submit this SITUATION for RULINGS from NCAA and USA Softball.

MTD, Sr.
Doldrums continue. MTD, please give us the rulings.
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Old Tue Jul 05, 2022, 05:01pm
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I don't see how it can be treated as anything but an unreported sub. The player not in the lineup played defense, therefore in the game and not reported.
NFHS of course, requires a warning to the manager.
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  #11 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jul 05, 2022, 05:03pm
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As requested by Tru_in_Blu:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. View Post
I have been doing some "housekeeping" in my officiating/umpiring files this month and I came across SITUATION 19 in the 2019-20 NFHS Baseball Rules Interpretations, and since NFHS Baseball and Softball Rules regarding Substitutes are somewhat different I thought I would post SITUATION 19, but not the RULING in hopes of moving the Forum out of it Summer doldrums.

SITUATION 19: Unnoticed by either team and the home plate umpire, the visiting team turns in a lineup card with eight players listed as starters and three substitute players. The visiting team had nine players on defense in the bottom of the first inning. In the top of the second inning, the home team realizes that its opponent has only eight players listed in the starting lineup. Bringing this to the attention of the home plate umpire, the home team suggests that for the remainder of the game an out should be called every time the missing spot comes to bat. The visiting team, now aware of its omission, adds to the lineup a player as the ninth defensive player. He was not one of the three substitutes listed on the lineup.

Since this is a NFHS Baseball Rules Situation, I want us to confine our RULING to NFHS Softball Rules.

Later, I will submit this SITUATION for RULINGS from NCAA and USA Softball.

MTD, Sr.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tru_in_Blu View Post
Doldrums continue. MTD, please give us the rulings.

As requested by Tru-in-Blu, here is the NFHS Baseball Ruling for 2019-20 NFHS Baseball Rules Interpretation, Situation 19:

RULING: This is legal. The team did start the team with nine players. The team is allowed to correct the omission and it is legal for a team to use a player not originally listed on the lineup card. (1-1-2, 4-4-1f)

MTD, Sr.
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Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.
Trumbull Co. (Warren, Ohio) Bkb. Off. Assn.
Wood Co. (Bowling Green, Ohio) Bkb. Off. Assn.
Ohio Assn. of Basketball Officials
International Assn. of Approved Bkb. Officials
Ohio High School Athletic Association
Toledo, Ohio
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