Courtesy runner in ITB

[DTQ_Blue]

The NFHS requires that the pitcher or catcher must have batted and reahed base, or "earned" in parentheses, their way on base to be eligible for a courtesy runner. Rule 8-9 Art 2. When a game has reached ITB and one of them is the runner placed at 2B, is the runner considered to have earned the base for the purpose of being eligible for a CR?

[Tru_in_Blu]

Unless mandated or required by state adopted rules, NFHS does not employ tie breaker (nothing international about it) philosophy.

If they did, and it was the pitcher or catcher who would be the runner placed on 2B, that is considered an "earned" base and a courtesy runner would be permitted.

[Cecil4]

I sent info to a league coordinator, from the USA Softball Rules.
NFHS book just says States can adopt one.

A. Starting with the top of the eighth inning, and each half inning thereafter, the offensive team shall begin its turn at bat with the player who is scheduled to bat last in that respective half inning being placed on second base (e.g., if the number five batter is the lead off batter, the number four batter in the batting order will be placed on second base. A substitute may be inserted for the runner).

B. If a team is in the tie-breaker and the Short Handed Rule is in effect, do not declare an out if the absent player is the one who should begin the half inning at second base. Instead, place on second base the player whose name precedes the absent player’s name in the line-up. "

2) A clarification is that if the player placed on second base is the pitcher or catcher, they may have a Courtesy Runner.

3) You might hear/see this referred to as the ITB, because the original was known as International Tie Breaker, now TBR.

[DTQ_Blue]

Cecil, where in the USA Rules did you find this. I'm looking w/o success.

[Tru_in_Blu]

Originally Posted by dtq_blue

cecil, where in the usa rules did you find this. I'm looking w/o success.

5-11

[DTQ_Blue]

Ted, I'm looking for what Cecil quoted in B. 2 in a USA document. I see USA 5-11, which is their tie breaker rule, but it doesn't cover B. 2, and doesn't specifically reference a CR for F2.

[Tru_in_Blu]

Originally Posted by DTQ_Blue

Ted, I'm looking for what Cecil quoted in B. 2 in a USA document. I see USA 5-11, which is their tie breaker rule, but it doesn't cover B. 2, and doesn't specifically reference a CR for F2.

What Cecil posted as "A" and "B" are from 5-11.

His next 2 bullet points of 2 & 3 may have been copied from some other document.

#2 is certainly true.

#3 is simply a clarification of ITB/TBR

We'll let Cecil weigh in on the source of the latter 2 entries.

[Cecil4]

#2 - a clarification on the USA Softball web site years ago - April 2014:

Play: In the top of the 8th inning, F2, who was the last batter to complete their turn at bat, is placed on 2B. The offense wants to put a Courtesy Runner in to run for F2. The umpires do not allow this because F2 did not bat and reach base safely.
Ruling: The umpires should have allowed F2 to have a Courtesy Runner. As long as F1 and/or F2 batted for themselves in the inning prior to the tie breaker and were the last to complete their turn at bat, they have earned the right to be put on 2B, therefore they can have a Courtesy Runner.

#3 - personal comment

BTW, there is also a rule that said the earning on base aspect excluded a DP or pinch hitter getting on base and then having the P/C as a runner. 8.10.e

[Tru_in_Blu]

Originally Posted by Cecil4

BTW, there is also a rule that said the earning on base aspect excluded a DP or pinch hitter getting on base and then having the P/C as a runner. 8.10.e

This is a little misleading. The DP or PH may not have a CR, but the P/C could be a runner as a legal substitute.

"If the DP bats for the pitcher or catcher and reaches base safely, a courtesy runner is not permitted to run for the Designated Player (DP), or their substitute, including the pitcher or catcher."

[Cecil4]

Originally Posted by Tru_in_Blu

This is a little misleading. The DP or PH may not have a CR, but the P/C could be a runner as a legal substitute.

"If the DP bats for the pitcher or catcher and reaches base safely, a courtesy runner is not permitted to run for the Designated Player (DP), or their substitute, including the pitcher or catcher."

I'm not clear about what you mean. Is the rule misleading or my comment?

[Tru_in_Blu]

Originally Posted by Cecil4

I'm not clear about what you mean. Is the rule misleading or my comment?

Your comment: DP or pinch hitter getting on base and then having the P/C as a runner

The pitcher or catcher could run for the DP or a PH as a Flex (P or C) entering as a runner. This would not be a CR situation but a substitution providing all lineup and eligibility rules are followed.