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Old Thu Aug 01, 2019, 09:08am
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Catcher Cannot Remove Helmet?

Ugh.

In a Facebook umpire group for Little League umpires, someone posted a video of a LL Baseball runner who was caught in a rundown between third and home. During the rundown, the runner was obstructed heading toward home when two defenders (the pitcher and catcher) were both in the runner's path waiting for a throw coming from the third base side. The catcher caught the throw and placed a tag on the runner as the runner tried to weave through the two defenders.

Obviously, the original poster was hoping for some dialogue about the obstruction violation. But one umpire (at least I assume he is an umpire) posted that the runner was safe because the catcher removed his helmet/mask and tossed it between home plate and the mound to get involved in the rundown. He was adamant that the rule on catcher's equipment required a catcher to wear the helmet/mask, and since there wasn't language in the rule when a catcher is allowed to remove it, it must stay on at all times.

Wow. Just wow. Where do some of these "umpires" come up with their rulings? Has this gentleman never been to a baseball or softball game in his life? Has he ever watched baseball or softball being played on TV?

So I just checked the NFHS rule on catcher's equipment. Sure enough, 1-7-1 also doesn't specify that the catcher is allowed to remove her helmet/mask during the course of play. Just curious if any of you have ever run across a coach, parent or umpire who claims the catcher must keep her helmet/mask on at all times.
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Old Thu Aug 01, 2019, 09:14am
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I hope I do run across a coach, parent, or umpire who thinks that.
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Old Thu Aug 01, 2019, 09:25am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manny A View Post
Ugh.

In a Facebook umpire group for Little League umpires, someone posted a video of a LL Baseball runner who was caught in a rundown between third and home. During the rundown, the runner was obstructed heading toward home when two defenders (the pitcher and catcher) were both in the runner's path waiting for a throw coming from the third base side. The catcher caught the throw and placed a tag on the runner as the runner tried to weave through the two defenders.

Obviously, the original poster was hoping for some dialogue about the obstruction violation. But one umpire (at least I assume he is an umpire) posted that the runner was safe because the catcher removed his helmet/mask and tossed it between home plate and the mound to get involved in the rundown. He was adamant that the rule on catcher's equipment required a catcher to wear the helmet/mask, and since there wasn't language in the rule when a catcher is allowed to remove it, it must stay on at all times.

Wow. Just wow. Where do some of these "umpires" come up with their rulings? Has this gentleman never been to a baseball or softball game in his life? Has he ever watched baseball or softball being played on TV?

So I just checked the NFHS rule on catcher's equipment. Sure enough, 1-7-1 also doesn't specify that the catcher is allowed to remove her helmet/mask during the course of play. Just curious if any of you have ever run across a coach, parent or umpire who claims the catcher must keep her helmet/mask on at all times.

So if he's stuck on such a strict interpretation, ask him where the penalty for removal is specified.
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Old Thu Aug 01, 2019, 09:41am
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Originally Posted by Rich Ives View Post
So if he's stuck on such a strict interpretation, ask him where the penalty for removal is specified.
Oh, believe me, there were plenty of comments in response to his post asking him what the rule specified as a penalty. He just kept skirting the questions by insisting the rule makes it mandatory that the helmet/mask stay on. A couple of folks asked him if he was a troll just trying to get people stirred up, but he seemed pretty adamant with his understanding of the rule.

I was going to ask him if a fielder dropped his/her glove on the ground and still managed to catch a pop fly in his/her bare hands, what would he call.
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Old Thu Aug 01, 2019, 10:36am
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Not that I care about baseball rules, but if we are going to be fine pointed:
- catcher is a fielder after the pitch (no cite)
- if the umpire judges the helmet to be dangerous during a non-pitch play, it is then illegal and must be removed

:
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Old Thu Aug 01, 2019, 12:32pm
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I'm pretty sure most rulesets have wording in them about what discarded equipment is allowed to be on the field without penalty and they are the batter's discarded bat and the catchers discarded helmet.
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Old Thu Aug 01, 2019, 12:42pm
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Originally Posted by RKBUmp View Post
I'm pretty sure most rulesets have wording in them about what discarded equipment is allowed to be on the field without penalty and they are the batter's discarded bat and the catchers discarded helmet.
That too !
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Old Thu Aug 01, 2019, 01:44pm
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Originally Posted by RKBUmp View Post
I'm pretty sure most rulesets have wording in them about what discarded equipment is allowed to be on the field without penalty and they are the batter's discarded bat and the catchers discarded helmet.
Unfortunately, neither the LL rule book nor the casebook talk about "discarded equipment". They just generalize everything that isn't dirt, grass, bases, and pitcher's plate as items foreign to the natural ground. That would include batting helmets that fall off a runner's head, and gloves/mitts that inadvertently fall off a fielder's hand.

Then they say that if a thrown or pitched ball touches one of those items foreign to the natural ground, the ball is still live and in play (LL doesn't recognize the Blocked Ball concept). The same if a batted ball touches such an item in fair territory. Only if the foreign item is in foul territory and gets touched by a batted ball before it becomes fair is it a foul ball.
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Old Fri Aug 02, 2019, 07:32am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manny A View Post
Ugh.

In a Facebook umpire group for Little League umpires, someone posted a video of a LL Baseball runner who was caught in a rundown between third and home. During the rundown, the runner was obstructed heading toward home when two defenders (the pitcher and catcher) were both in the runner's path waiting for a throw coming from the third base side. The catcher caught the throw and placed a tag on the runner as the runner tried to weave through the two defenders.

Obviously, the original poster was hoping for some dialogue about the obstruction violation. But one umpire (at least I assume he is an umpire) posted that the runner was safe because the catcher removed his helmet/mask and tossed it between home plate and the mound to get involved in the rundown. He was adamant that the rule on catcher's equipment required a catcher to wear the helmet/mask, and since there wasn't language in the rule when a catcher is allowed to remove it, it must stay on at all times.

Wow. Just wow. Where do some of these "umpires" come up with their rulings? Has this gentleman never been to a baseball or softball game in his life? Has he ever watched baseball or softball being played on TV?

So I just checked the NFHS rule on catcher's equipment. Sure enough, 1-7-1 also doesn't specify that the catcher is allowed to remove her helmet/mask during the course of play. Just curious if any of you have ever run across a coach, parent or umpire who claims the catcher must keep her helmet/mask on at all times.

Manny:

How did Mark, Jr., and I miss that FB thread?

MTD, Sr.
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Old Wed Aug 07, 2019, 08:46am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. View Post
Manny:

How did Mark, Jr., and I miss that FB thread?

MTD, Sr.
Mark, here's the link: https://www.facebook.com/groups/1515...4894849835577/
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Old Wed Aug 07, 2019, 09:02am
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Originally Posted by Manny A View Post

Thanks Manny.

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Old Wed Aug 07, 2019, 02:07pm
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Originally Posted by Manny A View Post
I hope it's not serious there either.
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It's not our jobs to invent rulings to fit our personal idea of what should and should not be.
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Old Thu Aug 08, 2019, 10:26am
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Originally Posted by CecilOne View Post
I hope it's not serious there either.
At first I didn't think it was. But the guy who felt the catcher was in violation of the rule was pretty adamant that he was not allowed to remove his helmet. He was on that island all by himself.
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