Look back rule

[jmkupka]

In the past I've read differing opinions of what constitutes "making a play" in regards to a pitcher merely holding the ball at shoulder height.

Play: R1 is 3-4 steps off 3B as (walked) BR trots to 1B, rounds it and heads for 2B (12U).

F1 pays BR no mind, and is in a staredown with R1, ball at shoulder height. I give it a beat or two, then ring up R1.

Of course, irate DC is insisting F1 is making a play by the way she's holding the ball as "she can fire the ball from that position"

Of course, as a pitcher, she might be pretty dangerous with the ball down at her waist, too. But I didn't point that out to him...

What are your views on what constitutes making a play? Of course, making a play on BR releases R1 from the base, but holding a the ball up while looking at R1? I dont think so...

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by jmkupka

In the past I've read differing opinions of what constitutes "making a play" in regards to a pitcher merely holding the ball at shoulder height.

Play: R1 is 3-4 steps off 3B as (walked) BR trots to 1B, rounds it and heads for 2B (12U).

F1 pays BR no mind, and is in a staredown with R1, ball at shoulder height. I give it a beat or two, then ring up R1.

Of course, irate DC is insisting F1 is making a play by the way she's holding the ball as "she can fire the ball from that position"

Of course, as a pitcher, she might be pretty dangerous with the ball down at her waist, too. But I didn't point that out to him...

What are your views on what constitutes making a play? Of course, making a play on BR releases R1 from the base, but holding a the ball up while looking at R1? I dont think so...

There is a difference between holding the ball at shoulder and raising it there after looking at the runner.
Holding it first does not seem a play to me.

[Tru_in_Blu]

From another post on this forum I found:

Rule 2-47 "PLAY BALL," MAKE A PLAY, INITIAL PLAY
ART. 2 . . . Make a Play.
a. Any action by the pitcher intended to cause a reaction from the runner(s) as it pertains to the look-back rule (F.P.).

I have always interpreted a move by a pitcher in the circle with the ball that would cause a reaction as releasing runners from the LBR. A fake throw, a shoulder fake, or holding the ball up in a throwing position would release runners in my judgment.

In most higher levels of play, F2 simply returns the ball to F1 who does none of the above. Mostly, pitchers are ignoring the runners.

Now in 12U or Middle School, I'll sometimes see catchers run towards runners faking throws. Most catchers at this level have neither the arm strength or accuracy to be attempting pick offs. And it just lengthens the game to no end.

[teebob21]

Originally Posted by Tru_in_Blu

Rule 2-47 "PLAY BALL," MAKE A PLAY, INITIAL PLAY
ART. 2 . . . Make a Play.
a. Any action by the pitcher intended to cause a reaction from the runner(s) as it pertains to the look-back rule (F.P.).

Bingo. If she's doing it to "threaten" the runner, it's a play and LBR is off. Taken to its logical extreme, we could stand there all day legally, with the runner off base, and F1 in the circle with the ball poised to throw in an epic staredown.

Luckily, around here, subvarsity games and summer ball games are on a timer. Play silly games all night long, ladies: I go home after an hour 45 for JV; less for club ball.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by teebob21

Bingo. If she's doing it to "threaten" the runner, it's a play and LBR is off. Taken to its logical extreme, we could stand there all day legally, with the runner off base, and F1 in the circle with the ball poised to throw in an epic staredown.

Luckily, around here, subvarsity games and summer ball games are on a timer. Play silly games all night long, ladies: I go home after an hour 45 for JV; less for club ball.

You know how to fix this issue, don't you?

[jmkupka]

Originally Posted by teebob21

Bingo. If she's doing it to "threaten" the runner, it's a play and LBR is off. Taken to its logical extreme, we could stand there all day legally, with the runner off base, and F1 in the circle with the ball poised to throw in an epic staredown.

And my take is, I dont feel the ball at the shoulder is to threaten, it's more to communicate "If you take off, I'm ready for you". That's not a play.
Unless she cranks back to throw, the onus is on the runner to make her choice in a moment or two.

[teebob21]

Originally Posted by jmkupka

Unless she cranks back to throw, the onus is on the runner to make her choice in a moment or two.

Agreed. I left this out of my original reply, but the scenario I was envisioning was endless pump fakes while the runner stands motionless. That's a play. To Irish's point, yeah, I know how to fix this.