Two runners at a base

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by jmkupka

As soon as he runs beyond the bag 3 feet in any direction except directly towards home, he’s out of the basepath and immediately out.

If avoiding a tag, likely in this case, but required.

Originally Posted by jmkupka

Sanchez didn’t do anything wrong by standing there and unless he was he was tagged at the split second Stanton was on the base then he would not be out.

Stanton is entitled to that base until he is out.

[jmkupka]

he's entitled to it, but my point is, Sanchez has to be tagged at the moment Stanton is on the bag. Sounds like Stanton overran it, so that moment is small.

I'm guessing, once he's on the "far side" of 3b (away from HP), fair or foul, he can be considered running the bases in reverse order, and the fielder shouldn't be required to pursue him past that point.

[Tru_in_Blu]

Maybe in baseball, it should have been a DP:

"According to the official rule, a runner may be deemed to have passed a preceding (lead) runner based on his actions, or the actions of the lead runner. The official rule cites a play where a runner -- like Stanton -- is caught in a rundown and races back to third base. Before being tagged, the lead runner runs beyond third base into left field, with the trailing runner -- Sanchez -- now in front of him. As a result, the trailing runner is ruled out and third base is left unoccupied."

When I watched the replay, at no point in time were both runners touching the base.

I don't have that in softball unless someone can point me to a specific rule or case play.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by jmkupka

he's entitled to it, but my point is, Sanchez has to be tagged at the moment Stanton is on the bag. Sounds like Stanton overran it, so that moment is small.

OK, still ignoring the abandonment difference and the passing or not; does the bolded apply?

I think the lead runner (Stanton) "owns" the base as long as not advanced to the next base/plate.

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

OK, still ignoring the abandonment difference and the passing or not;
does the bolded apply?

If both are touching the base one of them is out when tagged. Force play or not determinmes who.

[BretMan]

FWIW...here is the MLB case play that covers this.

PLAY—Runners on second base and third base with one out. The runner from third base (i.e., the lead runner) makes an advance toward home and is caught in a rundown between third base and home plate. Believing the lead runner will be tagged out, the runner at second base (i.e., the trailing runner) advances to third base. Before being tagged, the lead runner runs back to and beyond third base toward left field. At this time, the trailing runner has passed the lead runner as a result of the lead runner’s actions. As a result, the trailing runner is out and third base is unoccupied. The lead runner is entitled to third base if he returns to touch it before he is out, see Rule 5.06(a)(1), unless he is declared out for abandoning the bases.

This interpretation was just added a couple of years ago, in response to a similar play and debate about whether or not running past third base like that constitutes "passing a runner". The case play clarifies that it does.

[jmkupka]

Sooo... if this ever happens in our sport, can we use this as a guideline? Not to say that we'd quote this case play in explaining our call, but do we have a leg to stand on under our rules?

And:
Is the fielder with the ball expected to continue chasing the runner beyond 3B into left field? That was my earlier point, that the base path that is established by the pursuit is a straight line between where the runner is and 3B.
3 feet beyond 3B is out of the path, no?

Also and:
If Sanchez steps back off the bag when Stanton trots on by into left field, is he no longer considered to have passed Stanton? If he is, how far back would he have to step to not be called out?

[BretMan]

Originally Posted by jmkupka

Sooo... if this ever happens in our sport, can we use this as a guideline? Not to say that we'd quote this case play in explaining our call, but do we have a leg to stand on under our rules?

Of course we wouldn't cite this case play. But I wouldn't have any problem, if two softball players did this same thing, judging it as "passing". I've never seen any interpretation that says it wouldn't be.

I'm thinking of "passing" as which runner is advanced closest to home. Once the lead runner goes past third base like that, then the trailing runner is closer to home.

Originally Posted by jmkupka

Is the fielder with the ball expected to continue chasing the runner beyond 3B into left field? That was my earlier point, that the base path that is established by the pursuit is a straight line between where the runner is and 3B.
3 feet beyond 3B is out of the path, no?

Again, no problem with a base path violation, so long as a tag is being attempted. The lead runner is now between second and third base. As such, his base path is a line to either of those two bases. Straight up the foul line, toward the outfield and away from third base, is not the runner's legal base path.

Originally Posted by jmkupka

If Sanchez steps back off the bag when Stanton trots on by into left field, is he no longer considered to have passed Stanton? If he is, how far back would he have to step to not be called out?

Not sure why you'd think that. First, the passing violation had already occurred, so the trailing runner is already out. Nothing he can do at that point to change that.

If he did step off, now both runners are between second and third base. Which one is most advanced toward home? Or, which one is closest to third base? That should tell you which is the most advanced runner. If that's the trailing runner, then you have a violation.