When do you finally eject "that coach" who knows how to toe the line?

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by LRZ

We were taught, somewhat facetiously, to say to a kid who cursed, "Son, I don't mind that kind of language, but my partner is a priest, and it really upsets him."

[Tru_in_Blu]

One of our umpires that works the HS games actually is a priest. Not catholic, though. I'm not sure what denomination, but he never does attend the Sunday annual meeting because he's "working".

Fortunately, there are a couple of other dates/locations that he can choose to attend.

[Tru_in_Blu]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

And I really wouldn't care unless it is specifically directed at an umpire or another participant. I've got more important things to do than be the language police

Yabbut... sometimes, that's what the leagues ask us to do.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by Tru_in_Blu

Yabbut... sometimes, that's what the leagues ask us to do.

Yup. If you accept the job, you accept the requirements of the job.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Dakota

Yup. If you accept the job, you accept the requirements of the job.

I accept the job of officiating a softball game, not social behavioral control.

[Tru_in_Blu]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

I accept the job of officiating a softball game, not social behavioral control.

One of our leagues has this wording in their bylaws:

e. If the umpire witnesses a player stating the "F" word, "JC" (in vain) or "God Damn" during the game, the player will be immediately ejected from that game. If the umpire hears something that crosses the line, he will issue a warning to the team and coach. In that case they will be warned one time before a player will be ejected from the game.

Would you choose to simply not work that league or ignore the guidelines given to the umpires who work the game(s)?

[Big Slick]

Originally Posted by teebob21

1st encounter: Coach on offense, R1 on 1B, BR bunts. ... He keeps chirping as he leaves and I tell him that's enough to his back as he walks away, and give a stop sign. Life moves on.

To add my 40 percent of a nickel, this is where you lost him and your game. Why would you respond to his back as he is walking away? Do you need to have the last word? Also, you gave the "stop sign" to his back (and therefore didn't see it)?

Now you have created a no win situation. Either he didn't hear you and he is now in your head, or he knows that he can manipulate you. Not to mention that you are now emotionally invested with this guy.

For situation #1, I'm handing this way:
Coach: go for help
Me: are you asking about not contacting the bag or did you think the runner beat the ball? (yes, I ask this questions, I don't waste time by making the coach play the guessing game).
**
coach1: the runner beat the ball
me: sorry coach, that's a judgement play and my partner can't help. Let's play ball (as I go back to my position)
coach2: she didn't get the bag
me: coach, I had a pretty good look at it and I'm sure. I'll ask if you want, but I'm sure ask to what he is going to say.
rationale: I'll give him a quick "ask" because that's what he wanted, but I also let him know it was futile. This also removes him from me and the game continues.
***
Either way, I'm not going to argue with him or have the last word. When he leaves, it's over for me. If he wants to argue, I'll say: "coach, time to play" and leave him. If he continues and starts to approach me, then I have restriction/ejection options.

However, neither time will I give the "stop sign." There is a wonderful discussion about this form of communication on the basketball board, and how the NBA feels about it. I would not have given the signal in the other situations either, as it just sets a bad tone.

[LRZ]

Originally Posted by Tru_in_Blu

One of our leagues has this wording in their bylaws:

Wow. Is that a church league?

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Tru_in_Blu

One of our leagues has this wording in their bylaws:

e. If the umpire witnesses a player stating the "F" word, "JC" (in vain) or "God Damn" during the game, the player will be immediately ejected from that game. If the umpire hears something that crosses the line, he will issue a warning to the team and coach. In that case they will be warned one time before a player will be ejected from the game.

Would you choose to simply not work that league or ignore the guidelines given to the umpires who work the game(s)?

I would probably choose to not work that league or tell them up front I'm not their shill.

This is nothing new for me. I've held the same opinion for decades and have never ejected anyone for simple language issues. Do not believe in what people refer to as profanity. If you take offense to a word, that is your issue, not mine.

But that is me and I can appreciate other opinions or beliefs.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Big Slick

However, neither time will I give the "stop sign." There is a wonderful discussion about this form of communication on the basketball board, and how the NBA feels about it. I would not have given the signal in the other situations either, as it just sets a bad tone.

I don't disagree, but contend a "stop sign" can be effective and the use of it would depend on the manner in which the coach, or whomever, is approaching me.

[Big Slick]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

I don't disagree, but contend a "stop sign" can be effective and the use of it would depend on the manner in which the coach, or whomever, is approaching me.

I do agree, in the manner of "nothing is absolute." I would say, as a rule, the stop sign is bad. However, there is a time and place, such as "hard charging coach or player" or anything on the extreme end.

Stop sign could work for basketball (actually encouraged in NCAA-W as a warning method prior to T, and it should be seen on camera from my understanding) due to the continuous action.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

I would probably choose to not work that league or tell them up front I'm not their shill.

This is nothing new for me. I've held the same opinion for decades and have never ejected anyone for simple language issues. Do not believe in what people refer to as profanity. If you take offense to a word, that is your issue, not mine.

But that is me and I can appreciate other opinions or beliefs.

Yes, I know this has been your consistent view on this for years. My only point on the language issue (which you apparently agree with) is if it is a league rule that the league expects umpires to enforce, then you either enforce the rule or don't take the job.

Rules like this have from time to time appeared in local leagues around here. At one time, it was even the MN rule for ASA JO games. Everyone knew this and expected it to be enforced. Working out an arrangement where a single umpire would not have to enforce it would probably have not ended well if there was a violating coach or team in his game.

Of course, all that probably appears insufferably quaint and/or hypocritical to rough and tumble east-coasters such as you!

[Tru_in_Blu]

Originally Posted by LRZ

Wow. Is that a church league?

Yes, it is.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Big Slick

I do agree, in the manner of "nothing is absolute." I would say, as a rule, the stop sign is bad. However, there is a time and place, such as "hard charging coach or player" or anything on the extreme end.

Stop sign could work for basketball (actually encouraged in NCAA-W as a warning method prior to T, and it should be seen on camera from my understanding) due to the continuous action.

I have taught new umpires that if they felt uncomfortable in the manner in which a coach/player is approaching them to take a step backward (as to not be confused to be taking a challenging stance) and raise their hand and calmly tell them it is close enough.

If the individual stops, drop the hand and carry on with the discussion. If they keep coming and cause you to retreat to avoid contact, it is probably time for them to go.

This is a very stressful situation for a rookie umpire and they need to have an idea of how to handle it. I've never had any negative feedback, but a few positive reactions indicating that the maneuver worked. Only once did it result in an ejection, but the young (18yo) umpire turned it into a positive experience.

Though you don't want to scare the newbies, I believe it is better to prepare them for the inevitable.

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by jmkupka

My side question about situation #2... is the no-tag, no-touch, no-call mechanic the same as is required at the plate?

While I've never had it happen out at the bases, I do come up with a firm "NO TAG" immediately, of course staying with the play for a potential overslide.

I don't think the delay (other than the ordinary hesistation-timing we should use) is appropriate other than at the plate...

I don't know that anyone answered your question. But typically at second and third base when you have a missed tag and a runner who misses the base, one or both players are going to make the immediate correction to fix the mistake, so you won't have to worry about a delayed Safe signal. You just don't want to give a quick Safe call because you could end up following that with an immediate Out call if the fielder makes the subsequent tag before the runner can correct herself. The "Safe, No, Out!" call doesn't look good.

At home plate, that's a different situation because the runner may head to the dugout after oversliding and not touching the plate, and not bother to fix it. So a delayed Safe call provides some closure on the play, because the runner is considered Safe at that point, but is still subject to appeal.