When do you finally eject "that coach" who knows how to toe the line?

[Big Slick]

Originally Posted by teebob21

1st encounter: Coach on offense, R1 on 1B, BR bunts. ... He keeps chirping as he leaves and I tell him that's enough to his back as he walks away, and give a stop sign. Life moves on.

To add my 40 percent of a nickel, this is where you lost him and your game. Why would you respond to his back as he is walking away? Do you need to have the last word? Also, you gave the "stop sign" to his back (and therefore didn't see it)?

Now you have created a no win situation. Either he didn't hear you and he is now in your head, or he knows that he can manipulate you. Not to mention that you are now emotionally invested with this guy.

For situation #1, I'm handing this way:
Coach: go for help
Me: are you asking about not contacting the bag or did you think the runner beat the ball? (yes, I ask this questions, I don't waste time by making the coach play the guessing game).
**
coach1: the runner beat the ball
me: sorry coach, that's a judgement play and my partner can't help. Let's play ball (as I go back to my position)
coach2: she didn't get the bag
me: coach, I had a pretty good look at it and I'm sure. I'll ask if you want, but I'm sure ask to what he is going to say.
rationale: I'll give him a quick "ask" because that's what he wanted, but I also let him know it was futile. This also removes him from me and the game continues.
***
Either way, I'm not going to argue with him or have the last word. When he leaves, it's over for me. If he wants to argue, I'll say: "coach, time to play" and leave him. If he continues and starts to approach me, then I have restriction/ejection options.

However, neither time will I give the "stop sign." There is a wonderful discussion about this form of communication on the basketball board, and how the NBA feels about it. I would not have given the signal in the other situations either, as it just sets a bad tone.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Big Slick

However, neither time will I give the "stop sign." There is a wonderful discussion about this form of communication on the basketball board, and how the NBA feels about it. I would not have given the signal in the other situations either, as it just sets a bad tone.

I don't disagree, but contend a "stop sign" can be effective and the use of it would depend on the manner in which the coach, or whomever, is approaching me.

[Big Slick]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

I don't disagree, but contend a "stop sign" can be effective and the use of it would depend on the manner in which the coach, or whomever, is approaching me.

I do agree, in the manner of "nothing is absolute." I would say, as a rule, the stop sign is bad. However, there is a time and place, such as "hard charging coach or player" or anything on the extreme end.

Stop sign could work for basketball (actually encouraged in NCAA-W as a warning method prior to T, and it should be seen on camera from my understanding) due to the continuous action.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Big Slick

I do agree, in the manner of "nothing is absolute." I would say, as a rule, the stop sign is bad. However, there is a time and place, such as "hard charging coach or player" or anything on the extreme end.

Stop sign could work for basketball (actually encouraged in NCAA-W as a warning method prior to T, and it should be seen on camera from my understanding) due to the continuous action.

I have taught new umpires that if they felt uncomfortable in the manner in which a coach/player is approaching them to take a step backward (as to not be confused to be taking a challenging stance) and raise their hand and calmly tell them it is close enough.

If the individual stops, drop the hand and carry on with the discussion. If they keep coming and cause you to retreat to avoid contact, it is probably time for them to go.

This is a very stressful situation for a rookie umpire and they need to have an idea of how to handle it. I've never had any negative feedback, but a few positive reactions indicating that the maneuver worked. Only once did it result in an ejection, but the young (18yo) umpire turned it into a positive experience.

Though you don't want to scare the newbies, I believe it is better to prepare them for the inevitable.