The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Softball

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old Wed Mar 14, 2018, 02:12pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Northeast Nebraska
Posts: 770
Nhfs - boo & ibb

No outs, R1 (who is B5) on 1B. B7 comes to the plate. F1 throws 1 pitch for a strike; R1 steals 2B safely. With an 0-1 count, defensive HC asks for Time and approaches the PU. DHC tells PU he wants to intentionally walk B7...and then he stands right next to the PU until B7 touches 1B. DHC immediately appeals that B7 is BOO, and wants R1 returned to 1B.

Ruling: B6 is out. B7 returns to the plate with no count, and R1 remains at 2B. Was this properly officiated?

Bonus Third World Play question: Does the coach's IBB request count as a pitch, legal or illegal for the purposes of a BOO appeal (or any appeal for that matter)? Edited to add: Say B7 reaches, and then DHC wants to IBB B8. No pitches have been thrown; can B7's BOO still be appealed? I say no.
__________________
Powder blue since 1998. Longtime forum lurker.
Umpiring Goals: Call the knee strike accurately (getting the low pitch since 2017)/NCAA D1 postseason/ISF-WBSC Certification/Nat'l Indicator Fraternity(completed)
"I'm gonna call it ASA for the foreseeable future. You all know what I mean."

Last edited by teebob21; Wed Mar 14, 2018 at 02:16pm.
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old Wed Mar 14, 2018, 02:48pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,340
Any action that occurred before the boo was appealed and not a result of the incorrect batter putting the ball into play stands. So yes, the runner stays at 2nd.
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old Wed Mar 14, 2018, 03:19pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: The Land Of The Free and The Home Of The Brave (MD/DE)
Posts: 6,425
How the incorrect batter reached base does not matter.
__________________
Officiating takes more than OJT.
It's not our jobs to invent rulings to fit our personal idea of what should and should not be.
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old Thu Mar 15, 2018, 09:32am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Columbus, Ohio
Posts: 1,640
Quote:
Originally Posted by teebob21 View Post
Bonus Third World Play question: Does the coach's IBB request count as a pitch, legal or illegal for the purposes of a BOO appeal (or any appeal for that matter)? Edited to add: Say B7 reaches, and then DHC wants to IBB B8. No pitches have been thrown; can B7's BOO still be appealed? I say no.
Rare maybe, but not as third world as some of the stuff we see posted!

This is a good question that I've seen raised before without a good answer being given. At what point exactly would the defense lose its right to appeal BOO, given that no pitches are thrown on the IBB?

When the coach requests the IBB? When the umpire grants time to administer it? When the umpire points to first base to issue the walk (heh, heh, heh!)? When the batter actually touches first base? When the next batter enters the batter's box? When a pitch is thrown to the next batter?
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old Thu Mar 15, 2018, 11:09am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 648
My guess is, when DC calls time to intentionally walk the batter after the incorrect batter completes her time at bat, he should make the appeal before announcing the IBB.

related issue, though not asked, (at work, no rulebook):

Does OC lose the right to pull the incorrect batter when the intentionally-walked incorrect batter touches 1B?

Last edited by jmkupka; Thu Mar 15, 2018 at 11:17am.
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old Thu Mar 15, 2018, 11:11am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 254
Quote:
Originally Posted by BretMan View Post
Rare maybe, but not as third world as some of the stuff we see posted!

This is a good question that I've seen raised before without a good answer being given. At what point exactly would the defense lose its right to appeal BOO, given that no pitches are thrown on the IBB?

When the coach requests the IBB? When the umpire grants time to administer it? When the umpire points to first base to issue the walk (heh, heh, heh!)? When the batter actually touches first base? When the next batter enters the batter's box? When a pitch is thrown to the next batter?
One would think this question has already been answered. The NFHS rule book also covers slow-pitch where intentional walks without throwing the pitches are the norm. Referring to the 2017 rule book, rule 2-1-4 says an appeal must be made before a) before the next legal or illegal pitch, [...]. Contrast that with the BOO appeal, 7-1-2 Penalty 2, which must be made before the next pitch (legal or illegal), or prior to an intentional base on balls (SP) [...]. "SP" has been deleted from the 2018 book.

Situation: bases loaded. B4 is the proper batter. B5 hits a SAC fly to score R1 (on third). R2 advances to 3rd. Betty Bomber steps into the box and the defense requests an intentional walk. With Betty on 1st, the defense appeals that B5 batted out of order. By 7-1-2 Penalty 2, we deny the appeal. Now the defense appeals that R1 left early. Do you grant the appeal?

Last edited by Crabby_Bob; Thu Mar 15, 2018 at 11:18am.
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old Thu Mar 15, 2018, 12:26pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 719
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmkupka View Post
Does OC lose the right to pull the incorrect batter when the intentionally-walked incorrect batter touches 1B?
I would think the answer to that is yes.

More to the point - does the OC lose the right to pull the incorrect batter and send the correct batter to 1B after the DC requests the IBB?
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old Thu Mar 15, 2018, 01:16pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: The Land Of The Free and The Home Of The Brave (MD/DE)
Posts: 6,425
Quote:
Originally Posted by Altor View Post
I would think the answer to that is yes.

More to the point - does the OC lose the right to pull the incorrect batter and send the correct batter to 1B after the DC requests the IBB?
Incorrect batter cannot be pilled after reaching 1st, in fact,

B becomes a batter-runner when the IBB is awarded.

OC can pull the Batter, not a Batter/Runner.
__________________
Officiating takes more than OJT.
It's not our jobs to invent rulings to fit our personal idea of what should and should not be.
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old Thu Mar 15, 2018, 02:26pm
Stirrer of the Pot
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Lowcountry, SC
Posts: 2,373
I guess I'm a little slow today, but why in the world would the defensive head coach direct that the current batter be walked intentionally with no pitches (WIWNP), and then appeal that the batter before her batted out of order? I would just look at the coach and say, "Sorry, coach, but you should've appealed it before you walked the next batter intentionally."

Now here's the kicker. By asking that the current batter be WIWNP, that should legitimize the previous improper batter who is on base. By legitimizing her, then the batter who was WIWNP may not be the proper batter. So by directing that she be WIWNP, the coach then has the possibility of appealing that she was out of order, correct?

Say #6 bats in place of #4 and singles. The defensive head coach comes out when he sees that #4 is coming to the plate. She's a big hitter, as is #5 who would come up after #4. So he asks the PU to WIWNP #4, and #4 goes to first. That should legitimize #6's at-bat, so he appeals. #4 is taken off the bases, #6 is returned to first, #7, who became the proper batter when #6 is legitimized, is ruled out, and the next batter is #8.
__________________
"Let's face it. Umpiring is not an easy or happy way to make a living. In the abuse they suffer, and the pay they get for it, you see an imbalance that can only be explained by their need to stay close to a game they can't resist." -- Bob Uecker
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old Thu Mar 15, 2018, 03:59pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Fremont, NH
Posts: 1,247
Quote:
Originally Posted by CecilOne View Post
B becomes a batter-runner when the IBB is awarded.
Curious technicality question. If a batter is walked intentionally, wouldn't they go from being a batter directly to being a runner? Since the IBB is done during a suspension of play, that player never gets to be a BR.

Although I'll say that I like the USA definition of BR better than NFHS.
__________________
Ted
USA & NFHS Softball
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
NHFS Survey ozzy6900 Baseball 35 Fri Apr 20, 2012 01:03pm
NHFS re-entry Four Seam Softball 5 Wed Apr 25, 2007 09:49am
Asa, Nhfs, Ncaa tcannizzo Softball 1 Sun Aug 06, 2006 11:30am
NHFS EXAM hwalker747 Softball 7 Wed Mar 15, 2006 02:39pm
HELP ASA vs NHFS Bagman62 Softball 9 Tue May 25, 2004 06:22pm


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:09am.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1