Obstruction, Look Back--NFHS

[jmkupka]

The 2 elements needed for the exception were not in effect, but at what point is all play to have been considered stopped (which I thought was an element as well)?

How long, with the pitcher in possession in the circle, can the runner (standing still on 1B) wait before taking off for 2B, and still be protected by the original OBS call?

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by jmkupka

The 2 elements needed for the exception were not in effect, but at what point is all play to have been considered stopped (which I thought was an element as well)?

How long, with the pitcher in possession in the circle, can the runner (standing still on 1B) wait before taking off for 2B, and still be protected by the original OBS call?

It seems to me that the BU, as soon as all play has come to its conclusion, should go ahead and call Time, announce that he/she had obstruction, and then announce where he/she is placing the runner. Either he/she says, "Time; Obstruction on the First Base Person. Runner goes to second," or "...Runner stays at first."

To me, this shouldn't be a case where the BU just says nothing if he/she judges the runner is already on the awarded base. A little bit of preventive medicine goes a long way.

[RKBUmp]

This thread kind of revived some points on obstruction from a post last year about when exactly is obstruction over. As to the original play in this thread, the lookback rule is not an exception to the obstruction rule, so the runner cannot be called out for committing a lookback violation. However, there was a comment about when the runner returned to 1st base, the obstruction was cancelled. That is not the case.

The obstruction rule has 2 elements that must be met to cancel the obstruction. 1, the obstructed runner must reach the base the umpire judges they would have absent the obstruction, AND 2, there must be a subsequent play on a different runner. Unless both of those elements are met, the obstruction is still in place and the runner cannot be put out between the 2 bases where obstructed.

There was a long draw out thread last year on a FB NFHS softball forum about a play involving a pick off at 2nd base and the runner thrown at attempting to advance to 3rd. The umpires ruled the obstruction was cancelled when the runner returned to 2nd and the out at 3rd stood. There was even a UIC on site that confirmed the ruling. In response I posted a play I had where a batter/runner was obstructed rounding 1st on a bad throw, F9 was backing up the play and after initially starting toward 2nd, the runner thought better of it and returned to 1st base. The ball was thrown to the pitcher who was not in the circle when suddenly the 1st base coach tells the runner, he called obstruction, you get 2nd base and the runner just started trotting toward 2nd. The pitcher ran over and tagged the runner. Again, the vast majority of responses where the out stands because the runner returned to 1st base cancelling the obstruction. Many even claimed the exception did not apply because there were no other runners on base. Someone managed to get the play sent to NFHS national and they just replied this week with their answer.

RULING: When the runner is tagged by F1 the umpire should call time and kill the play. The runner is then returned to 1B (the base she would have gotten to had there been no obstruction) as the hit was a routine single.

An obstructed runner may not be called out between the two bases where obstructed. EXCEPTION: When an obstructed runner, after being obstructed, safely obtains the base they would have been awarded had there been no obstruction AND there is a subsequent play on a different runner.

"AND there is a subsequent play on a different runner". <<<<

[jmkupka]

RKB, that is the play I'm questioning:

Ordinary single to F9. BR rounds 1B and is obstructed. Returns to 1B and stands on it.

Ball is relayed from F9 to F5 to F1 (in the circle).

BR takes off for 2B:
1. after F5's relay, but before ball is caught by F1.
2. after ball is caught by F1.

In either case. BR is tagged out at 2B.

In 1, BR is still protected, and returned to 1B, because both elements of the exception are not met.
In 2, is it not a LBR violation? And if not, how long does F1 have to have possession before it is?

We don't call time and award the base (if she's on the awarded base), so what else ends the play?

[RKBUmp]

A lookback violation is not one of the exceptions to the obstruction rule that would allow the runner to be called out.

[jmkupka]

Not saying LBR is one of the exceptions.

I'm asking, when is the play considered over, if not when the ball is in the circle, and runner is on the base they would have been awarded?

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by jmkupka

Not saying LBR is one of the exceptions.

I'm asking, when is the play considered over, if not when the ball is in the circle, and runner is on the base they would have been awarded?

As I mentioned in my earlier post on this scenario, why wouldn't the BU call Time as soon as the ball is in the circle, make the announcement that he/she had Obstruction, and just say the runner stays at first base? It provides closure on the violation (everyone presumably saw the DDB signal), and prevents the mess you're describing.

But if you really insist on not saying anything after F1 has the ball in the circle, I'm still not calling a LBR violation should the runner be instructed to go to second base. The last play and any violations that took place are still viable, IMHO, until the pitcher delivers a pitch (legal or illegal).

That's how we handle other situations like appeal plays for runners missing bases, batting out of order violations, use of illegal equipment, etc. etc. We still recognize that the violation exists and can be ruled upon until that pitcher delivers the next pitch.

So even if F1 has the ball in the circle, walks up to the plate, steps on the plate, and keeps her hands separated as she looks in for the sign, I'm recognizing that the previous BR who was obstructed STILL cannot be put out between those two bases. If she comes off at that point and heads to second, I'm calling Time and putting her back to first. And then I'm likely going to eject the defensive head coach.

But why set myself up for that much trouble? Just call Time when play is over, and announce the Obstruction violation with the runner remaining on first base.