verbalize a fly ball out?

[Skahtboi]

Originally Posted by Tru_in_Blu

During a recent tournament I compiled some inputs for a newer umpire that was working with us. The tournament was a USA sanctioned event.

After composing the tips, I looked up references in the USA Umpire Manual.

Now I have a question about the mechanic for the PU to verbalize the out on a fly ball to the outfield. I also checked my NFHS Umpire Manual to see what they had.

The NFHS covers it under Movement from the Plate in item 4.

“On fly balls to the outfield not near the foul line, move to obtain a good angle to the catch versus straight at the fielder catching the ball. If the ball is caught, give an out signal and a verbal ‘out’ call.”

The USA version is similar, on fly balls not near the foul line: B.1.d.2)

“If the ball is fair and not caught, no signal is needed. No verbal call is given. If the ball is caught, give an out signal.”

There are multiple passages within this section that are greyed out, indicating that these were updates this year.

I have always verbalized (and signaled) even the most can-of-cornish catches. If I have a plate partner who doesn’t verbalize, I’ve always asked that they do.

Is this a change for USA or was something inadvertently omitted?

Four or five years ago, I asked a plate partner why he wasn’t verbalizing fly ball outs. He said he worked “college ball” and the philosophy was no verbal call so as not to (further) embarrass a girl who made an out. He also gave a very weak little fist turn over near his belt. My BS antennae started twitching, but since I don’t work “college ball” I couldn’t refute the statement.

Anyhoos… Comments?

Okay...I'll play devil's advocate here.

Do you feel a need to verbalize all calls that are obvious to everyone in the ballpark?

A lazy fly ball to the outfield, like an obvious foul, doesn't require a verbal call, IMO. A simple routine out call, just like one used on a runner who is out by 15 feet at first base, is all that is needed. No need to be overly officious. Everyone knows it is an out, just a simple acknowledgement is all that is needed. This way, on closer calls, the verbal has more power. More weight.

[teebob21]

Originally Posted by Skahtboi

Okay...I'll play devil's advocate here.

Do you feel a need to verbalize all calls that are obvious to everyone in the ballpark?

A lazy fly ball to the outfield, like an obvious foul, doesn't require a verbal call, IMO. A simple routine out call, just like one used on a runner who is out by 15 feet at first base, is all that is needed. No need to be overly officious. Everyone knows it is an out, just a simple acknowledgement is all that is needed. This way, on closer calls, the verbal has more power. More weight.

I verbalize everything. A no doubter at first or a can of corn? "Out." at normal speaking voice + signal. The only person that probably hears me is the F3 on a play at 1B, or the catcher on a fly ball.

[Tru_in_Blu]

Originally Posted by Skahtboi

Okay...I'll play devil's advocate here.

Do you feel a need to verbalize all calls that are obvious to everyone in the ballpark?

If I'm doing a HS game in NH, absolutely. I always verbalize regardless, even though USA doesn't apparently require it. Not big, loud sell outs, but if my partner is following a runner, I want him/her to hear me.

After an evaluation game one year, the evaluator claimed that I didn't verbalize an out. I was on the bases that game and I responded that I verbalize every out. He further claimed that he didn't see my mouth move. So I lost points for not verbalizing and for having the gall to challenge him on it. Vindictive SOB.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Tru_in_Blu

If I'm doing a HS game in NH, absolutely. I always verbalize regardless, even though USA doesn't apparently require it.

What leads you to say that?

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

What leads you to say that?

I thought this was in response to the situation of an obvious catch called by a chasing BU. If it's an routine catch of a can of corn fly ball, I don't know of any organization that requires the verbal "Out" call, just like we don't normally use a verbal "Out" when the BR gets thrown out at first base by tens of feet.

Are there organizations out there that require a verbal "Out" call for every fly ball catch by a chasing BU? I do believe that the PU should verbalize, but that's for the benefit of his/her partners knowing that a catch was made.

[Tru_in_Blu]

Originally Posted by Manny A

I thought this was in response to the situation of an obvious catch called by a chasing BU. If it's an routine catch of a can of corn fly ball, I don't know of any organization that requires the verbal "Out" call, just like we don't normally use a verbal "Out" when the BR gets thrown out at first base by tens of feet.

Are there organizations out there that require a verbal "Out" call for every fly ball catch by a chasing BU? I do believe that the PU should verbalize, but that's for the benefit of his/her partners knowing that a catch was made.

Not sure when the "chasing BU" snuck into this thread, but from my OP, NFHS requires a verbal by PU:

The NFHS covers it under Movement from the Plate in item 4.

“On fly balls to the outfield not near the foul line, move to obtain a good angle to the catch versus straight at the fielder catching the ball. If the ball is caught, give an out signal and a verbal ‘out’ call.”

[Tru_in_Blu]

Page 24 of USA Umpire Manual.

ROUTINE OUT & STRIKE

4) ... as you verbalize the out call.

Not the sell out, mind you. The routine out call.

So back to the original question: verbalize a fly ball out?

[CecilOne]

I'm having trouble with why it matters.

Also, there is often no reason to assume differences in rule books and manuals are deliberate.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Manny A

I thought this was in response to the situation of an obvious catch called by a chasing BU. If it's an routine catch of a can of corn fly ball, I don't know of any organization that requires the verbal "Out" call, just like we don't normally use a verbal "Out" when the BR gets thrown out at first base by tens of feet.

Are there organizations out there that require a verbal "Out" call for every fly ball catch by a chasing BU? I do believe that the PU should verbalize, but that's for the benefit of his/her partners knowing that a catch was made.

USA Softball instructs the umpire to verbalize "out" as part of the out mechanic (USA Softball Umpire Manual, pg. 24)

[Manny A]

Yeah, sorry for the mix-up. I thought we were talking about a chasing BU, not the PU. I concur that the PU should always verbalize, mostly to let his/her partner(s) know.

That said, I see no compelling reason for the PU to do that in one-man.