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Old Tue Sep 26, 2017, 02:21pm
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Getting it right

Is this appropriate and acceptable?

Runners on 1st & 2nd. Batted ball to SS, who throws to 3rd for force out.
BU calls runner out, then discusses with PU, checking for better angle.

PU, who was half way to 3rd for the play, says the runner was safe.
BU changes call to safe.


Ignore whether BU should not have called out if not sure.
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Old Tue Sep 26, 2017, 02:27pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CecilOne View Post
Is this appropriate and acceptable?

Runners on 1st & 2nd. Batted ball to SS, who throws to 3rd for force out.
BU calls runner out, then discusses with PU, checking for better angle.

PU, who was half way to 3rd for the play, says the runner was safe.
BU changes call to safe.


Ignore whether BU should not have called out if not sure.

I am still trying how the BU did not have the best look at this play. Bang the Runner out and move on.

MTD, Sr.
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Old Tue Sep 26, 2017, 02:50pm
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Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. View Post
I am still trying how the BU did not have the best look at this play. Bang the Runner out and move on.

MTD, Sr.
Straightlined somewhat behind runner, PU half way up to 3rd on the line.
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Old Tue Sep 26, 2017, 07:00pm
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I have a few differing thoughts about this play.

1) There is no reason for PU to be halfway to 3rd. PU has exactly one primary responsibility on this play; the pulled foot at 1st, a play that never happened.

2) AFTER a play at 1st, then PU would move up for a follow-up play at 3rd.

3) Since neither #1 nor #2 actually happened, PU moving up the line pretty much generates the "go for help, PU had a better view" complaint.

4) No way should BU be straight lined here. Initial play, really?

5) BUT, if BU truly believes he/she didn't have a good look, then, do the right thing(s); yes, ask PU what PU saw, and if PU is absolutely sure the call needs to be changes, then BU should change the call.

6) Summary; if you do get together on a call, get it RIGHT! If you are prepared to stay with your call, no matter what, do not make your partner complicit in the wrong call by pretending to get that input.
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Old Tue Sep 26, 2017, 09:49pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve View Post
4) No way should BU be straight lined here. Initial play, really?
Moving from C to a good 90 at 3B here is IMO the hardest read in all of 2-man base mechanics. Coming forward from the starting position is the natural reaction. Moving to our right all the way to the baseline takes us so far from the rest of our responsibilities. I think its really easy to get straight-lined on this play, especially if the SS takes a hard look at 1B before deciding to throw late to 3B.

Andy and I had a very similar play this spring. I got straight-lined. I made a safe call based on what I could see. When the coach asked some very good questions, we got together and got it right. Andy had 100%-certainty information for me, and I was nowhere near 100% on my call.

I agree wholeheartedly with the rest of Steve's observations.
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Old Tue Sep 26, 2017, 10:35pm
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Originally Posted by CecilOne View Post
Straightlined somewhat behind runner, PU half way up to 3rd on the line.

There no excuse for the BU to be straight lined on a force play at 3B when the throw is going F6 to F5. If the BU was straight lined then he was out of position at the TOP.

MTD, Sr.
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Old Wed Sep 27, 2017, 08:24am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. View Post
There no excuse for the BU to be straight lined on a force play at 3B when the throw is going F6 to F5. If the BU was straight lined then he was out of position at the TOP.

MTD, Sr.
TOP? How about TOT? It isn't like the umpire doesn't move as the play develops.
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Old Wed Sep 27, 2017, 09:16am
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Originally Posted by teebob21 View Post
Moving from C to a good 90 at 3B here is IMO the hardest read in all of 2-man base mechanics. Coming forward from the starting position is the natural reaction. Moving to our right all the way to the baseline takes us so far from the rest of our responsibilities. I think its really easy to get straight-lined on this play, especially if the SS takes a hard look at 1B before deciding to throw late to 3B.

Andy and I had a very similar play this spring. I got straight-lined. I made a safe call based on what I could see. When the coach asked some very good questions, we got together and got it right. Andy had 100%-certainty information for me, and I was nowhere near 100% on my call.

I agree wholeheartedly with the rest of Steve's observations.
On this OP, we had runners on 1st and 2nd, and a force play to 3rd. Our starting position is off the right shoulder of F6; if F6 is squeezing the 5/6 hole, maybe off the left shoulder. My pre-pitch preparation reminds me to NOT move forward (into the path of a throw to the force at either 2nd or 3rd, or to create that straightline); on the force play, F6 is letting the ball take her to the better play 90% of the time, and that is my read. Not looking for a 90 to the force (were you thinking a tag play?), but my movement at time of the throw is parallel to the basepath no matter which way F6 throws.

This play is not an issue of cutting distance; the primary goal should by nothing but creating a better angle; move toward 3rd with that throw, get as close to 45 to the throw as possible. Move parallel toward 2nd if throw to 2nd or 1st, with the same goal in mind, a better angle (45 to 2nd, ANY angle to the throw to 1st.

I don't recall an F6 making a delay on this force, rather than an immediate play; again, I expect her to let the ball take her to her best play. Never moving in at all unless F6 is charging hard to a dribbler, and her only play is to 1st; even then still moving left behind her for a better angle.
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Old Wed Sep 27, 2017, 10:37am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve View Post
(were you thinking a tag play?)
Yes, I was thinking of a tag play. I did not read and process the OP correctly. I should not Internet late at night.
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Old Wed Sep 27, 2017, 10:51am
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Smile

Quote:
Originally Posted by teebob21 View Post
Moving from C to a good 90 at 3B here is IMO the hardest read in all of 2-man base mechanics. Coming forward from the starting position is the natural reaction. Moving to our right all the way to the baseline takes us so far from the rest of our responsibilities. I think its really easy to get straight-lined on this play, especially if the SS takes a hard look at 1B before deciding to throw late to 3B.

Andy and I had a very similar play this spring. I got straight-lined. I made a safe call based on what I could see. When the coach asked some very good questions, we got together and got it right. Andy had 100%-certainty information for me, and I was nowhere near 100% on my call.

I agree wholeheartedly with the rest of Steve's observations.
The play the Teebob and I had was a tag play at third.

I (PU) had a great angle and look at the play right up the third baseline. I saw where Teebob was when he made the call and cringed a bit internally, when he came to me and asked the proper question, I gave him what I had.

As a side note, he also got a very good opportunity to work on his "interacting with the coach" skills......
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Old Wed Sep 27, 2017, 11:45am
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Originally Posted by teebob21 View Post
Yes, I was thinking of a tag play. I did not read and process the OP correctly. I should not Internet late at night.

LOL!! My kids think, that at my age, I should not be Interneting at all at anytime! Or at least not without adult supervision!

MTD, Sr.
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Old Wed Sep 27, 2017, 11:51am
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Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve View Post
On this OP, we had runners on 1st and 2nd, and a force play to 3rd. Our starting position is off the right shoulder of F6; if F6 is squeezing the 5/6 hole, maybe off the left shoulder. [...]
The current thinking (at least locally) is our starting position is off of the left shoulder of F6 unless she's squeezing middle. I agree with everything else you wrote. We get in trouble by anticipating the play and committing early.
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Old Wed Sep 27, 2017, 12:42pm
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Originally Posted by Crabby_Bob View Post
The current thinking (at least locally) is our starting position is off of the left shoulder of F6 unless she's squeezing middle. I agree with everything else you wrote. We get in trouble by anticipating the play and committing early.
Yes, you are correct; misstated by me. With 1st and 2nd, I'm only off the right shoulder if I'm suspecting straight steal or fake bunt and steal sequence.
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Old Wed Sep 27, 2017, 01:58pm
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Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve View Post
Yes, you are correct; misstated by me. With 1st and 2nd, I'm only off the right shoulder if I'm suspecting straight steal or fake bunt and steal sequence.
Agree.
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Old Wed Sep 27, 2017, 02:39pm
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Originally Posted by Andy View Post
(snip) I saw where Teebob was when he made the call and cringed a bit internally, when he came to me and asked the proper question, I gave him what I had.

As a side note, he also got a very good opportunity to work on his "interacting with the coach" skills......
Andy, it's kinda sad and funny that this happens to us once a year. I never seem to kick calls as badly as I do when working bases with you. It's your turn to boot one this spring....I've covered the last two years!
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