Face masks?

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

According the the news reports out of KY, there was already legislation in the works.

I wouldn't doubt it. I was just being pedantic.

I agree with your views on this, BTW.

I am a bit mystified as to how they could put this in place without any standards at all. I'd like to see the actual rule rather than a press release describing it.

[RKBUmp]

This is the most information I can find directly from the KHSAA website.

A specific model or brand was not specified, but all face protection equipment must to be worn as intended by the manufacturer in order to comply with NFHS rules.

If that is all the wording they are using to specify facial protection a player could literally wear a halloween mask and say it is facial protection. Or as I posted earlier, a grinding faceshield from Home Depot or Lowes. That is also facial protection.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by RKBUmp

This is the most information I can find directly from the KHSAA website.



If that is all the wording they are using to specify facial protection a player could literally wear a halloween mask and say it is facial protection. Or as I posted earlier, a grinding faceshield from Home Depot or Lowes. That is also facial protection.

A welder's mask for the bright, sunny days would be interesting. And don't laugh, I've already seen it by a pitcher and batter in SP

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by Dakota

Just a point about those objecting to government involvement, etc.

This rule was put in place by the Kentucky High School Athletic Association, not the state legislature or any other agency of the Kentucky state government.

I'm having trouble believing you have not posted the Lone Ranger.

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by Dakota

Just a point about those objecting to government involvement, etc.

This rule was put in place by the Kentucky High School Athletic Association, not the state legislature or any other agency of the Kentucky state government.

Well, I never said anything about government involvement. What I said was it took a governing body to make this mandatory as opposed to having coaches and parents become more responsible for their kids.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

I started this thread so I thought I should comment further.

I see no problem with mandating a face mask in fact I would vote for such a requirement if I were on the NFHS and NCAA Softball Rules Committees, and the ASA Rules Committee.

BUT, I do believe that before such a mandate is made that ASTM standards developed and NOCSAE testing should have been done. That is the engineering "me" speaking. And I know that MTD, Jr., would agree with me.

MTD, Sr.

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

BUT, I do believe that before such a mandate is made that ASTM standards developed and NOCSAE testing should have been done. That is the engineering "me" speaking. And I know that MTD, Jr., would agree with me.

Agree. At the end of the day, we really have no idea how safe the masks currently on the market really are. They may appear to be safe, but who's to know if they truly are. That's probably why no national governing body wants to make them mandatory.

[teebob21]

Originally Posted by Manny A

Agree. At the end of the day, we really have no idea how safe the masks currently on the market really are. They may appear to be safe, but who's to know if they truly are. That's probably why no national governing body wants to make them mandatory.

Funny enough, the first two or three sentences can also be applied to umpire masks.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by teebob21

Funny enough, the first two or three sentences can also be applied to umpire masks.

So-called hockey-style helmets are available and at least some (maybe all?? I've never checked into it) are NOCSAE approved. We are (mostly) adults who can make the choice for a NOCSAE approved helmet if we so choose.

[CecilOne]

2020 - elbow guards made mandatory

2024 - ankle guards made mandatory

[Mountaincoach]

All of the objections on this particular thread to the KHSAA mandate are valid LEGAL points. At least you guys are not saying stupid things like the masks are not needed, it should be a personal choice, etc. And I agree some parents and coaches are probably cowards because they won't stand up to their own kids and say "Wear the mask or you don't play".

First, I'm not that parent or coach. If you play for me, you wear the mask. Secondly, what do we do to protect those kids while the lengthy process of testing those masks takes place?Again, lawyers are not standing on that field. Young kids with varying degrees of maturity and ability are, and a few of them without a mask are getting hurt. And you guys all know the masks on the market work better than nothing at all.

So, the rule has been established. It may very well save a kid's life next season. Now go ahead and start the testing, get the certifications, etc. Sometimes common sense has to step in front of legalities and society's never-ending urge to question and debate almost everything. And you guys make sure to snap a picture of any homemade twisted wire masks that you see on the field today. And let me know if Lowes has a special on their face shields-I will run out and buy a dozen for my team and throw the high quality Rip-It, Schutt, etc. masks in the trash.

[Mountaincoach]

Originally Posted by Manny A

Agree. At the end of the day, we really have no idea how safe the masks currently on the market really are. They may appear to be safe, but who's to know if they truly are. That's probably why no national governing body wants to make them mandatory.

I've had the same thoughts, but I was told by some pretty reliable sources close to KHSAA the real reason all if these governing organizations have hesitated is because of the pre-existing injury lawsuits and the indirect admission of "guilt" associated with mandating them at this point.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Mountaincoach

Again, lawyers are not standing on that field.

No, they are standing behind the dugouts with a briefcase full of retainer agreements

Young kids with varying degrees of maturity and ability are, and a few of them without a mask are getting hurt. And you guys all know the masks on the market work better than nothing at all.

Don't know if I'd be so fast jumping on that bandwagon. There have been some pretty wild garage/basement made concoctions appear over the years. Good intent, but maybe not as safe as they appear

So, the rule has been established. It may very well save a kid's life next season. Now go ahead and start the testing, get the certifications, etc.

Who is going to pay to commission such testing?

Sometimes common sense has to step in front of legalities and society's never-ending urge to question and debate almost everything. And you guys make sure to snap a picture of any homemade twisted wire masks that you see on the field today. And let me know if Lowes has a special on their face shields-I will run out and buy a dozen for my team and throw the high quality Rip-It, Schutt, etc. masks in the trash.

Well, see, that is part of the problem. When the certified masks were mandated on the batting helmet, the people couldn't understand why they had to replace the "perfectly good" (yet neither tested or certified) Rip-it, Schutt or whatever other manufactured cage that was already attached to the helmet. Many were just outright headstrong about MAKING them spend another $15-$25 for another mask they insisted they did not need. Of course, like the bats, many voiced their displeasure and accused ASA of passing the requirement simply to make more money off of masks. This was a little strange to me that these same folks buy into the $200-$300 Make-My-Daughter-a-Superstar bat in a heartbeat, but go off the deep end on something like a piece of safety equipment.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by Mountaincoach

...what do we do to protect those kids while the lengthy process of testing those masks takes place?...

Who is this "we" of which you speak? Coaches, leagues, and parents already have all the authority they need.

If anyone can post a link to the actual wording of the rule, I'd like to read it.

I would hope, for example, the rule mandates that the mask be manufactured for the purpose of softball fielder protection, not just something homemade or just any ol' "mask". If they did that, in reality it is no different from what a coach or a league would mandate (but it probably does shift the burden of legal liability to the Kentucky High School Athletic Association should one of these masks break and cause injury).

[SWFLguy]

Retired ump here. I'm a bit surprised that NOCSAE standards haven't been implemented by now.