BIZARRE Play - Abandonment?

[youngump]

Originally Posted by teebob21

Steve nailed it. As the OP is written, the ball was never returned to F1 in the circle (LBR) nor was it declared dead. No other rules concerning the BR seem to come into play here. When the ball is live, runners can go wherever they please, provided they are not involved in a tag situation (which invokes the basepath rule).

The ball is live and the BR (technically a runner now) is out on the tag. Retreating back to home is no longer INT. Since she already reached 1B, if she had been caught in a rundown, it would be ruled just like any runner in any other rundown headed to any other base.

I think that the crux of this question is the spot that you and Steve appear to disagree. Steve says: Was she stepping back to avoid or attempting to delay a tag? is an applicable rule. You say that rule doesn't apply because she reached first base. I think that is right. But you also say Steve nailed it. What am I missing?

[CecilOne]

Isn't the stepping back rule based on nowhere to go?
IOW, even in a rundown, the runner can't go back to HP.

[IRISHMAFIA]

I cannot help myself, I have to say something about this.

How can anyone even think of a rundown between home and first base?

[Dakota]

One other thing asked in your thread title...

USA does not have the concept of "abandonment" without the runner actually entering DBT.

[youngump]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

I cannot help myself, I have to say something about this.

How can anyone even think of a rundown between home and first base?

Because if you read the rule literally that's what it says. The BR has reached first base so she can now retreat toward home without committing interference. The only other spot (that I can think of) that mentions something changing when the BR reaches first is the look back rule. If the Batter hits a single walks down to first and then steps back toward home and just stands there and the pitcher gets in the circle, would you call a LBR violation. TWP I know, but it's illustrative. They don't have to be read the same way but it does make some sense.

That said, I agree it's a little ridiculous and it gets worse if you carry it to it's logical conclusion, so I'm fine with the idea of that rule applying. It just requires stretching the language.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by youngump

Because if you read the rule literally that's what it says. The BR has reached first base so she can now retreat toward home without committing interference.

Actually, I was referring to the absurdity of there being a rundown between home and 1st.

The only other spot (that I can think of) that mentions something changing when the BR reaches first is the look back rule. If the Batter hits a single walks down to first and then steps back toward home and just stands there and the pitcher gets in the circle, would you call a LBR violation.

Yep

[teebob21]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Actually, I was referring to the absurdity of there being a rundown between home and 1st.

Absurd does not mean impossible. See also: the "Oregon play".

If I was a coach needing a run, I might envision some shenanigans with R1 after she reaches 1B, up to and including retreating to home. If anyone has rule support for an out between HP and 1B on BR/R1 after reaching 1B, I'm all ears.

[josephrt1]

Originally Posted by teebob21

If anyone has rule support for an out between HP and 1B on BR/R1 after reaching 1B, I'm all ears.

the USA/ASA rule 8.2.H says "when a batter runner steps back towards home plate to avoid or delay a tag by a fielder."

There is nothing in here that says once she reaches 1st base this rule disappears. If she reaches 1st but steps back and is now between 1st and home and then tries to avoid a tag by stepping back (more) I think the rule still supports calling an out for batter-runner interference; she's stepping back towards home plate to avoid or delay a tag by a fielder. She is out.

[josephrt1]

Originally Posted by youngump

Because if you read the rule literally that's what it says.

I don't follow. which rule are you referring to?

[josephrt1]

Originally Posted by youngump

You say that rule doesn't apply because she reached first base. I think that is right. But you also say Steve nailed it.

I think that rule of stepping back would still apply between home and 1st. there is a rule somewhere in the book that if a runner reaches a base she is forced to and then steps back, the force is reinstated. I don't think she can get in a traditional rundown between home and 1st, even if she did already reach first. if the defense is trying to tag her and she steps back between 1st and home, my vote is that the runner is out for INT even in this situation.