Checked swing-D3K

[Mbilica]

Originally Posted by MT 73

Since we are talking baseball-- in MLB-- OBR-- the plate umpire must go for help on a checked swing request.
But not so in NFHS ball.

He can ask me all he wants. I officiate OBR, but I will never rule a checked swing a strike from B or C unless it is blatantly obvious, in which case the plate guy should have seen it. I have no angle from B or C to determine if the batter swung.

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[MT 73]

Originally Posted by Mbilica

He can ask me all he wants. I officiate OBR, but I will never rule a checked swing a strike from B or C unless it is blatantly obvious, in which case the plate guy should have seen it. I have no angle from B or C to determine if the batter swung.

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The MLBUM manual says different.
Page 51--paragraph 71 under the heading of Check Swing Appeals---of the 2017 MLBUM:
"Under Official Baseball Rules the plate umpire has an obligation to ask for help when the manager or catcher of the defensive team requests an appeal.."

[Mbilica]

Originally Posted by MT 73

The MLBUM manual says different.
And unless you are a MLB or Minor League umpire you do NOT officiate under OBR.

True, we use OBR rules in Massachusetts, however.

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[MT 73]

Originally Posted by Mbilica

True, we use OBR rules in Massachusetts, however.

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I took that part out to avoid being sarcastic--not fast enough it seems.
Youth leagues, such as Babe Ruth, Little League, Pony and others use modified OBR to allow for safety concerns and the ability to bat extra players, allow substitutes to re enter, etc.
If your leagues allow modifications such as these then you do not use true OBR.
Then again, I do not umpire in Massachusetts so Quien Sabe?

[Mbilica]

Originally Posted by MT 73

I took that part out to avoid being sarcastic--not fast enough it seems.
Youth leagues, such as Babe Ruth, Little League, Pony and others use modified OBR to allow for safety concerns and the ability to bat extra players, allow substitutes to re enter, etc.
If your leagues allow modifications such as these then you do not use true OBR.
Then again, I do not umpire in Massachusetts so you may actually use OBR.

The only modification I am aware of has to do with disqualifications. Players can be restricted to the bench. Also, the MIAA has established an official warning system for coaches. We only get the OBR rule book and we use MLB umpire training materials for our clinics. Some of the OBR rules don't fit the HS game very well all the time, but it is easier to umpire, in my opinion, than NFHS. We have no reentry, and no extra batters. I actually think the recent safety innovations in the MLB rules are also adequate at the HS level.

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[MT 73]

Originally Posted by Mbilica

The only modification I am aware of has to do with disqualifications. Players can be restricted to the bench. Also, the MIAA has established an official warning system for coaches. We only get the OBR rule book and we use MLB umpire training materials for our clinics. Some of the OBR rules don't fit the HS game very well all the time, but it is easier to umpire, in my opinion, than NFHS. We have no reentry, and no extra batters. I actually think the recent safety innovations in the MLB rules are also adequate at the HS level.

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Well it looks as if you guys do use OBR, with just a tad of modifications.
HS rules are a whole other animal!!
In addition to Babe Ruth baseball I umpire HS softball but so many of our summer baseball tournaments here in NY use NFHS that I was forced to learn that rule book as well.

[Tru_in_Blu]

Originally Posted by MT 73

I was forced to learn that rule book as well.

Someone held a gun to your head to make you work those $100 varsity games?!

[umpjim]

Originally Posted by Mbilica

The only modification I am aware of has to do with disqualifications. Players can be restricted to the bench. Also, the MIAA has established an official warning system for coaches. We only get the OBR rule book and we use MLB umpire training materials for our clinics. Some of the OBR rules don't fit the HS game very well all the time, but it is easier to umpire, in my opinion, than NFHS. We have no reentry, and no extra batters. I actually think the recent safety innovations in the MLB rules are also adequate at the HS level.

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So in any BB or SB code that requires you to go, as PU in 3 man, with runner/s on in the various perturbations you go to U? with LHB and U? with RHB. If you are BU in 3 man you tell PU in the briefing to go to whoever is on the wing with any batter because you won't have a ruling if he came come to you or it will be a no? Aside, I think at one point in some 3 man code they always went to the wing even if the inside ump was on the right side. So the debate is ongoing.

[Mbilica]

Originally Posted by umpjim

So in any BB or SB code that requires you to go, as PU in 3 man, with runner/s on in the various perturbations you go to U? with LHB and U? with RHB. If you are BU in 3 man you tell PU in the briefing to go to whoever is on the wing with any batter because you won't have a ruling or he came come to you but it will be a no? Aside, I think at one point in some 3 man code they always went to the wing even if the inside ump was on the right side. So the debate is ongoing.

One time when I was in 2 man, the PU appealed to me on a checked swing by a left handed batter. I thought he went. When I indicated the swing, the head coach at 3rd had a fit. He had been coaching for a long time and had "never seen such a pioneer call". After the game, the PU apologized to me for looking for help. I was SURE I had a swing. But sure enough, I got a call from my assignor that evening. From then on, I make it a point to cover this in pregame. Unless everyone on the field can tell it was a swing, leave it to the plate umpire unless you are in A and it is a RHB. We can only get the lefties in 3 man. I hold to the same standard in softball. We are just at a disadvantage without an umpire on each corner.

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[MT 73]

Originally Posted by umpjim

So in any BB or SB code that requires you to go, as PU in 3 man, with runner/s on in the various perturbations you go to U? with LHB and U? with RHB. If you are BU in 3 man you tell PU in the briefing to go to whoever is on the wing with any batter because you won't have a ruling or he came come to you but it will be a no? Aside, I think at one point in some 3 man code they always went to the wing even if the inside ump was on the right side. So the debate is ongoing.

No debate.
In a 3 or 4 man crew the PU checks with whichever umpire has the best angle.
Which means with a Lefty it is the 3B umpire who usually gets the appeal.
But--in a two man rotation the BU gets it no matter where he is.
Just call 'em like you see 'em.

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by MT 73

And unless you are a MLB or Minor League umpire you do NOT officiate under OBR.

Originally Posted by Mbilica

True, we use OBR rules in Massachusetts, however.

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OBR and OBR-based rules are also used in LL, Dixie, USSSA, Babe Ruth, Legion, etc. etc. etc.

[CecilOne]

Should I ask about illegal pitches, 12" or 11" game balls, cylindrical bats, look back rule, DP/FLEX, windmill motions, live ball walks, or quick moving games on the baseball forum?

[BretMan]

Wondering what the difference is between something being "obvious" and "blatantly obvious"...

If I'm on the bases, I tell my partner to feel free to come to me on a checked swing no matter where I'm set up.

"But! But! But! You can't see that from there..."

Maybe I can, maybe I can't. If I can't, then I'm not going to overrule you and call a strike. But if I can, I will.

It's not "impossible" to make this call from sub-optimal positions. Just don't guess at a call. If you really can't tell, the default is "no swing". You did your job as best you could- be happy with that and move on!

[Mbilica]

Originally Posted by BretMan

Wondering what the difference is between something being "obvious" and "blatantly obvious"...

If I'm on the bases, I tell my partner to feel free to come to me on a checked swing no matter where I'm set up.

"But! But! But! You can't see that from there..."

Maybe I can, maybe I can't. If I can't, then I'm not going to overrule you and call a strike. But if I can, I will.

It's not "impossible" to make this call from sub-optimal positions. Just don't guess at a call. If you really can't tell, the default is "no swing". You did your job as best you could- be happy with that and move on!

Well said.

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[MT 73]

Originally Posted by BretMan

Wondering what the difference is between something being "obvious" and "blatantly obvious"...

If I'm on the bases, I tell my partner to feel free to come to me on a checked swing no matter where I'm set up.

"But! But! But! You can't see that from there..."

Maybe I can, maybe I can't. If I can't, then I'm not going to overrule you and call a strike. But if I can, I will.

It's not "impossible" to make this call from sub-optimal positions. Just don't guess at a call. If you really can't tell, the default is "no swing". You did your job as best you could- be happy with that and move on!

Ditto for well said.
Excellent.