today's OBS

[CecilOne]

On next field:

Runners on 1st & 2nd, deep base hit to left.
R1 rounds 3rd, collides with F5, knocked down and stays down.
R2 rounds 3rd, passes R1 and scores.
BR/R3 reaches 3rd safely, with ball thrown to 3rd then pitcher.

Ruling.
R1 scores as judged to reach home of not OBS.
R2 scores on OBS runner exception.

Comments?

[MT 73]

Sounds right.
Awards are based on what would have happened if the obstruction had not occurred.
What we have is a triple and without the obstruction both runners would have scored.
Otherwise the runner who was on first would have to be called out for passing.

[teebob21]

Nailed it. A runner cannot be called out for passing an obstructed preceding runner.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by teebob21

Nailed it. A runner cannot be called out for passing an obstructed preceding runner.

I hate that interpretation

[teebob21]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

I hate that interpretation

Speaking NFHS, it's not an interp, it's a rule. 8-8-17

Can you clarify what you don't like about it? I think it's fair. If runners were called out for passing leading obstructed runners, obstruction on the lead runner would become a valid defensive tactic on any extra base hit with runners on base, and would create additional confusion for the offense.

[josephrt1]

I assume y'all are talking FED rules because you seem convinced a runner can pass an obstructed runner without penalty. (I think that is the case in HS but i dont do HS anymore and too laze to pull out the books.) But in USA/ASA that is not the case. If a runner passes another runner, they are out, even if the preceding runner was obstructed. ASA presented a case play on this back in March 2016. The case is below. However, in this case, even though the runner was called out for passing the obstructed runner, the situation was rectified in the final ruling. Here is the case play:


Plays and Rulings: Mar 2016
Play: R1 is on 1B with two outs. B4 hits the ball to the outfield and it rolls past the outfielders to the fence. R1 rounds 2B and is obstructed by F6 and goes down to the ground unable to resume running the bases. Obstruction was called. B4 passes R1 and is thrown out at the plate for the third out. No ruling was made until the out was made at the plate.
Ruling: When R1 was obstructed the umpire would signal delayed dead ball. There are two possible rulings.
• One: If R1 is passed before the umpire can signal dead ball due to an injured player, then once B4 passed R1 time should have been called since this was now the third out. Rule 8, Section 7D Effect 2. We should then enforce the obstruction and award the bases the runner and batter-runner would have reached had there been no obstruction.
• Two: If the umpire determined R1 was injured and, in the umpire’s judgement, requires immediate attention prior to B4 passing the runner, the umpire should have called Dead Ball and awarded the injured player and all other runners the base they would have reached in their judgement. Rule 4, Section 10.

[RKBUmp]

It's simply a long way processing through the rule to end up with the runner can't actually be out for passing an obstructed runner. Yes, by rule the runner is out for passing but then you have to fix it so the runner really wasn't out after all.

[MT 73]

It is very simple--what would have happened had obstruction not occurred?
A triple and 2 runs score.
So fix it.
Are you going to reward the defense for screwing up?

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by teebob21

Speaking NFHS, it's not an interp, it's a rule. 8-8-17

Can you clarify what you don't like about it? I think it's fair. If runners were called out for passing leading obstructed runners, obstruction on the lead runner would become a valid defensive tactic on any extra base hit with runners on base, and would create additional confusion for the offense.

This was not a NFHS game. Not sure which rule set, but HS ball in Cecil's area finished a week ago.

I believe the interpretation for ASA came out around 2013.

The rule has always allowed for an award to any other runner affected by an OBS. IOW, if the runner checked up and did not pass the OBS runner, s/he would still be awarded the bases due had the OBS not taken place. However, it was done without another rule violation taking place. Using it as a strategy and then arguing about it would/should only get the coach ejected and runners still awarded the appropriate base(s). This was just as fair

When this was first raised, I saw this as an indictment of the officials that collectively could not or would not do their job.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by RKBUmp

It's simply a long way processing through the rule to end up with the runner can't actually be out for passing an obstructed runner. Yes, by rule the runner is out for passing but then you have to fix it so the runner really wasn't out after all.

But what if the OBS has run out of protection when passed?

[RKBUmp]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

But what if the OBS has run out of protection when passed?

Then they arent an obstructed runner any more.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

This was not a NFHS game. Not sure which rule set, but HS ball in Cecil's area finished a week ago.

However, it was done without another rule violation taking place.

USA rules.
The rule violation was not by the obstructed runner.

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

When this was first raised, I saw this as an indictment of the officials that collectively could not or would not do their job.

I hope you mean that generically and historically, not the OP umpires.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by josephrt1

• One: If R1 is passed before the umpire can signal dead ball due to an injured player, then once B4 passed R1 time should have been called since this was now the third out. Rule 8, Section 7D Effect 2. We should then enforce the obstruction and award the bases the runner and batter-runner would have reached had there been no obstruction.

Both the rule and the RS say the ball remains live on this type of out.

[josephrt1]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

Both the rule and the RS say the ball remains live on this type of out.

Except in the example given the runner passing the obstructed runner was the third out so the ball becomes dead in this specific example.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

USA rules.
The rule violation was not by the obstructed runner.

The first violation WAS the obstruction, the second would be the passing by a trailing runner.