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Old Mon May 15, 2017, 03:32pm
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Priorities

A partner asked me about this in pre-game and didn't like my answer.

As PU, there is a play at third for which you are responsible and just as the ball arrives at third, the runner from 3rd scores. What's your priority? (That is you don't have time to see the play and the touch, which do get a weaker look at.)

Thoughts?
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Old Mon May 15, 2017, 03:38pm
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Safe/out is the priority. As one of the old-timey baseball manuals used to say, keep your eye everlastingly on the ball. This situation is one of the many sacrifices that must be made with a 2 umpire crew.

The run scores by virtue of the runner passing the plate. If she doesn't touch it while there is a play happening at 3B, oh well. The defensive coach will probably be watching the play at 3B. I'm ruling safe on an appeal. I can't possibly see her miss the plate while I watch a play at 3B, and if I don't see the out, I can't call the out.
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Old Mon May 15, 2017, 03:52pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by youngump View Post
A partner asked me about this in pre-game and didn't like my answer.

As PU, there is a play at third for which you are responsible and just as the ball arrives at third, the runner from 3rd scores. What's your priority? (That is you don't have time to see the play and the touch, which do get a weaker look at.)

Thoughts?
If there is a runner from 3rd, headed home, that is the priority. How do you know the play won't be there? Lead runners come first.
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Old Mon May 15, 2017, 05:06pm
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Who is supposed to cover trail runners into 3rd?
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Old Mon May 15, 2017, 05:27pm
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Originally Posted by CecilOne View Post
If there is a runner from 3rd, headed home, that is the priority. How do you know the play won't be there? Lead runners come first.
Because the ball was thrown toward third and is getting there at the same time as the runner from second.
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Old Mon May 15, 2017, 06:48pm
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I'm with Cecil here. PU has the lead runner and as such, should not be worried about a trail runner at any other base until she scores, stops, or is put out.

In the OP, what the heck is the base guy doing?
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Old Mon May 15, 2017, 07:12pm
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This is something that should be pregamed. If PU is at home plate on a play then the BU has the lead runner into 3rd. In this case there is no play at home, just the runner scoring and the PU 1st priority is the safe/out call at third.
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Old Mon May 15, 2017, 07:17pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueDevilRef View Post
I'm with Cecil here. PU has the lead runner and as such, should not be worried about a trail runner at any other base until she scores, stops, or is put out.

In the OP, what the heck is the base guy doing?
Probably watching the batter-runner.

When I added my initial reply, I was thinking of a situation like this: R2 & R3 on 2B and 3B, ground ball up the middle. The fielder...say, F4, makes a throw to 1B to retire the BR, and F3 throws the ball back across the diamond to 3B. Plate has the call at 3B in the 2-man system while the lead runner is probably scoring.
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Old Tue May 16, 2017, 08:41am
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BU makes sure of any check-runner action by F4, then busts into the middle of the IF to make the call at 1B.

PU sees the touch at the plate, foot-contact by F3 on the base, then busts up the line for the call at 3B. BU should wheel around after call at 1B to see play at 3B for assistance if asked (bobble, missed tag, etc.)

Happens all the time.
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Old Tue May 16, 2017, 09:08am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmkupka View Post
BU makes sure of any check-runner action by F4, then busts into the middle of the IF to make the call at 1B.



PU sees the touch at the plate, foot-contact by F3 on the base, then busts up the line for the call at 3B. BU should wheel around after call at 1B to see play at 3B for assistance if asked (bobble, missed tag, etc.)



Happens all the time.


Great description. And I add this, if I am BU here, I'm squeezing home once all else is dealt with to help PU in case he gets stuck. I call PU for play at plate if I am there and he is trailing too far.
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Old Tue May 16, 2017, 09:19am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CecilOne View Post
If there is a runner from 3rd, headed home, that is the priority. How do you know the play won't be there? Lead runners come first.
Not correct. In the case where there is a runner coming home and a "middle runner" (not the batter runner) coming to third, such as:

Runners on second and first, base hit to outfield. runner from second is scoring and runner from first going into third.

Quote:
As PU: More out from behind the plate to the holding zone in foul ground, about half way to 3B* and read the play. Responsible for any play on the lead runner at 3B and any play at the plate.

BU: responsible for plays at 1B and 2B and last runner into 3B.

*2015 ASA/USA verbiage. I believe USA 2017 is slightly different about the area of the holding zone.
The key is "reading the play". PU in the holding zone, if ball is thrown directly to third (and it isn't the "last runner"), then PU takes third, regardless of outs. If this becomes a timing play, you use the best information you can (and BU can help).

If they throw comes home, then you take the play at home.

If the thrown comes home, but is cut and then thrown to third, BU needs to read this and help. This requires communication.
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Old Wed May 17, 2017, 09:06am
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Originally Posted by Big Slick View Post
Not correct. In the case where there is a runner coming home and a "middle runner" (not the batter runner) coming to third, such as:

Runners on second and first, base hit to outfield. runner from second is scoring and runner from first going into third.



The key is "reading the play". PU in the holding zone, if ball is thrown directly to third (and it isn't the "last runner"), then PU takes third, regardless of outs. If this becomes a timing play, you use the best information you can (and BU can help).

If they throw comes home, then you take the play at home.

If the thrown comes home, but is cut and then thrown to third, BU needs to read this and help. This requires communication.
OK, I stand corrected on procedure and technique.

I think I have been taught that lead runners are always the priority if they are played; but I ignored actual position like holding zone to read first.

Thanks.
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