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youngump Mon May 15, 2017 03:32pm

Priorities
 
A partner asked me about this in pre-game and didn't like my answer.

As PU, there is a play at third for which you are responsible and just as the ball arrives at third, the runner from 3rd scores. What's your priority? (That is you don't have time to see the play and the touch, which do get a weaker look at.)

Thoughts?

teebob21 Mon May 15, 2017 03:38pm

Safe/out is the priority. As one of the old-timey baseball manuals used to say, keep your eye everlastingly on the ball. This situation is one of the many sacrifices that must be made with a 2 umpire crew.

The run scores by virtue of the runner passing the plate. If she doesn't touch it while there is a play happening at 3B, oh well. The defensive coach will probably be watching the play at 3B. I'm ruling safe on an appeal. I can't possibly see her miss the plate while I watch a play at 3B, and if I don't see the out, I can't call the out.

CecilOne Mon May 15, 2017 03:52pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by youngump (Post 1005860)
A partner asked me about this in pre-game and didn't like my answer.

As PU, there is a play at third for which you are responsible and just as the ball arrives at third, the runner from 3rd scores. What's your priority? (That is you don't have time to see the play and the touch, which do get a weaker look at.)

Thoughts?

If there is a runner from 3rd, headed home, that is the priority. How do you know the play won't be there? Lead runners come first.

SNIPERBBB Mon May 15, 2017 05:06pm

Who is supposed to cover trail runners into 3rd?

youngump Mon May 15, 2017 05:27pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by CecilOne (Post 1005864)
If there is a runner from 3rd, headed home, that is the priority. How do you know the play won't be there? Lead runners come first.

Because the ball was thrown toward third and is getting there at the same time as the runner from second.

BlueDevilRef Mon May 15, 2017 06:48pm

I'm with Cecil here. PU has the lead runner and as such, should not be worried about a trail runner at any other base until she scores, stops, or is put out.

In the OP, what the heck is the base guy doing?

GoRedSox Mon May 15, 2017 07:12pm

This is something that should be pregamed. If PU is at home plate on a play then the BU has the lead runner into 3rd. In this case there is no play at home, just the runner scoring and the PU 1st priority is the safe/out call at third.

teebob21 Mon May 15, 2017 07:17pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlueDevilRef (Post 1005873)
I'm with Cecil here. PU has the lead runner and as such, should not be worried about a trail runner at any other base until she scores, stops, or is put out.

In the OP, what the heck is the base guy doing?

Probably watching the batter-runner.

When I added my initial reply, I was thinking of a situation like this: R2 & R3 on 2B and 3B, ground ball up the middle. The fielder...say, F4, makes a throw to 1B to retire the BR, and F3 throws the ball back across the diamond to 3B. Plate has the call at 3B in the 2-man system while the lead runner is probably scoring.

jmkupka Tue May 16, 2017 08:41am

BU makes sure of any check-runner action by F4, then busts into the middle of the IF to make the call at 1B.

PU sees the touch at the plate, foot-contact by F3 on the base, then busts up the line for the call at 3B. BU should wheel around after call at 1B to see play at 3B for assistance if asked (bobble, missed tag, etc.)

Happens all the time.

BlueDevilRef Tue May 16, 2017 09:08am

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmkupka (Post 1005886)
BU makes sure of any check-runner action by F4, then busts into the middle of the IF to make the call at 1B.



PU sees the touch at the plate, foot-contact by F3 on the base, then busts up the line for the call at 3B. BU should wheel around after call at 1B to see play at 3B for assistance if asked (bobble, missed tag, etc.)



Happens all the time.



Great description. And I add this, if I am BU here, I'm squeezing home once all else is dealt with to help PU in case he gets stuck. I call PU for play at plate if I am there and he is trailing too far.

Big Slick Tue May 16, 2017 09:19am

Quote:

Originally Posted by CecilOne (Post 1005864)
If there is a runner from 3rd, headed home, that is the priority. How do you know the play won't be there? Lead runners come first.

Not correct. In the case where there is a runner coming home and a "middle runner" (not the batter runner) coming to third, such as:

Runners on second and first, base hit to outfield. runner from second is scoring and runner from first going into third.

Quote:

As PU: More out from behind the plate to the holding zone in foul ground, about half way to 3B* and read the play. Responsible for any play on the lead runner at 3B and any play at the plate.

BU: responsible for plays at 1B and 2B and last runner into 3B.

*2015 ASA/USA verbiage. I believe USA 2017 is slightly different about the area of the holding zone.
The key is "reading the play". PU in the holding zone, if ball is thrown directly to third (and it isn't the "last runner"), then PU takes third, regardless of outs. If this becomes a timing play, you use the best information you can (and BU can help).

If they throw comes home, then you take the play at home.

If the thrown comes home, but is cut and then thrown to third, BU needs to read this and help. This requires communication.

CecilOne Wed May 17, 2017 09:06am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Slick (Post 1005888)
Not correct. In the case where there is a runner coming home and a "middle runner" (not the batter runner) coming to third, such as:

Runners on second and first, base hit to outfield. runner from second is scoring and runner from first going into third.



The key is "reading the play". PU in the holding zone, if ball is thrown directly to third (and it isn't the "last runner"), then PU takes third, regardless of outs. If this becomes a timing play, you use the best information you can (and BU can help).

If they throw comes home, then you take the play at home.

If the thrown comes home, but is cut and then thrown to third, BU needs to read this and help. This requires communication.

OK, I stand corrected on procedure and technique.

I think I have been taught that lead runners are always the priority if they are played; but I ignored actual position like holding zone to read first.

Thanks.


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