Erroneous foul ball call

[robbie]

[QUOTE=Andy;1005296]Once the ball is called foul, that bell should not be unrung.....

The problem with this play is....how do you "fix" it? You can't assume that the defense would have pounced on the ball and made an out and you can't assume that the BR would have made it safely to first. No pitch is not an option.

It wasn't specified which rule set, but in NCAA, you CANNOT, by rule, change this to a fair ball.

Here is a play I had as a UIC from a few years ago....

ASA (at the time) rules, 3 umpire crew, no runners on, less than two strikes on the batter.

Pitch comes in, batter hits a ground ball to F5 playing in front of third base, ball rolls under F5's glove and goes foul prior to passing third base. PU rules foul ball. Offensive coach comes to PU and states that F5 touched the ball in fair territory and asks PU to check with his partners. PU gets crew together and U3 tells PU that the ball was touched in fair territory by F5. PU changes call to fair ball and placed the BR on first base. Defensive coach wants to protest, I am summoned to the field, get the story from the crew and talk to the defensive coach. I do not allow the protest since it was a reversal of a judgement call which is not subject to protest. Post game with crew was that PU should have told Offensive coach that he saw all he needed to and that the foul ball call stands.[/QUOTE]

Wrong - Wrong - and More Wrong......

[Andy]

[QUOTE=robbie;1005298]

Originally Posted by Andy

Once the ball is called foul, that bell should not be unrung.....

The problem with this play is....how do you "fix" it? You can't assume that the defense would have pounced on the ball and made an out and you can't assume that the BR would have made it safely to first. No pitch is not an option.

It wasn't specified which rule set, but in NCAA, you CANNOT, by rule, change this to a fair ball.

Here is a play I had as a UIC from a few years ago....

ASA (at the time) rules, 3 umpire crew, no runners on, less than two strikes on the batter.

Pitch comes in, batter hits a ground ball to F5 playing in front of third base, ball rolls under F5's glove and goes foul prior to passing third base. PU rules foul ball. Offensive coach comes to PU and states that F5 touched the ball in fair territory and asks PU to check with his partners. PU gets crew together and U3 tells PU that the ball was touched in fair territory by F5. PU changes call to fair ball and placed the BR on first base. Defensive coach wants to protest, I am summoned to the field, get the story from the crew and talk to the defensive coach. I do not allow the protest since it was a reversal of a judgement call which is not subject to protest. Post game with crew was that PU should have told Offensive coach that he saw all he needed to and that the foul ball call stands.[/QUOTE]

Wrong - Wrong - and More Wrong......

Why?

[IRISHMAFIA]

[QUOTE=Andy;1005319]

Originally Posted by robbie

Why?

Because it is a lie.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Since we are telling stories of foul to fair

About 10 years ago, state tournament, there was a runner on 2nd and the batter hit a ball toward RCF. PU lost the ball for some reason and came up with a big "FOUL BALL". Well, Stevie Wonder was there and even he said, "That is some bad calling", somebody get the UIC.

The UIC awarded the BR 1B, but kept R1 on 2B. Yes, it is a compromise, but the fairest option available.

When the play was pushed up the chain to member of Nat Staff (without the applied resolution), his response was,"That's easy, place the batter on 1st and only push runners who are forced."

That is why UICs get the big bucks!

[Andy]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Since we are telling stories of foul to fair

About 10 years ago, state tournament, there was a runner on 2nd and the batter hit a ball toward RCF. PU lost the ball for some reason and came up with a big "FOUL BALL". Well, Stevie Wonder was there and even he said, "That is some bad calling", somebody get the UIC.

The UIC awarded the BR 1B, but kept R1 on 2B. Yes, it is a compromise, but the fairest option available.

When the play was pushed up the chain to member of Nat Staff (without the applied resolution), his response was,"That's easy, place the batter on 1st and only push runners who are forced."

That is why UICs get the big bucks!

The direction I got from NUS members was that I, as the UIC, should have overturned the overturn and left the ball foul....

When I asked by what rule I could do that, I was given the answer that once a ball is called foul, we don't make it fair.

[UmpireErnie]

I've heard from a number of clinicians over the years that "foul ball" call is basically a bell that can't be unrung. It's a foul ball get back in the box and hit.

[MT 73]

Originally Posted by UmpireErnie

I've heard from a number of clinicians over the years that "foul ball" call is basically a bell that can't be unrung. It's a foul ball get back in the box and hit.

Amen.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Andy

The direction I got from NUS members was that I, as the UIC, should have overturned the overturn and left the ball foul....

When I asked by what rule I could do that, I was given the answer that once a ball is called foul, we don't make it fair.

IOW, s/he couldn't provide you with a valid response. IMO, it is a cop-out. We are not talking about something close to the line, not even remotely. And it ceases to become judgment when an umpire acknowledges that the batted ball did, by rule, qualify as a fair ball. Not much different than an umpire calling "foul on a batted ball that hits a base. The rule book specifically states this is a fair ball, no judgment involved.

Maybe this is because I was trained by people who were more interested in getting it right instead of looking for a way out.