no call or foul ball?

[KathyCG]

First time this has happened to me and I can't find a ruling in the ASA rule book:

Tree branches overhang backstop. Foul ball goes up, and in coming down hits a branch, deflecting the ball away from the catcher, who would have caught it.

Just a foul ball? Dead ball/strike? Dead ball and the infamous do-over?

Thanks!

[FUBLUE]

Originally posted by KathyCG
First time this has happened to me and I can't find a ruling in the ASA rule book:

Tree branches overhang backstop. Foul ball goes up, and in coming down hits a branch, deflecting the ball away from the catcher, who would have caught it.

Just a foul ball? Dead ball/strike? Dead ball and the infamous do-over?

Thanks!

Should have been discussed in pre-game discussion or by league rules. Couple of HS diamonds in area here have this situation...it is always ruled a dead ball/foul ball. It would be in the ground rules/local rules part of ASA rule book, I think.

[whiskers_ump]

Originally posted by FUBLUE

Should have been discussed in pre-game discussion or by league rules. Couple of HS diamonds in area here have this situation...it is always ruled a dead ball/foul ball. It would be in the ground rules/local rules part of ASA rule book, I think.

Agree with FUBlue,

Situations such as this should be handled in pre-game. Lot of HS
parks around here have wires crossing above the playing fields.
Some play it when it is hit, others have different rules for it.
Anything unusual that could change the course of the play,
should be discussed during pre-game. Have the home team coach
explain how these things are handled. If he can't, umpires make
the decision at the pre-game.

JMHO,

[KathyCG]

Thanks--never thought about the tree in pre-game (duh). I always learn something new!

[Dakota]

Actually, if it was not brought up under the ground rules discussion, it is by definition a foul ball.

[Striker991]

Agreed:
These types of things need to be discussed at the plate meeting, covered under "ground rules." We have trees at one field down the first base line. We play Kingdome rule...in live ball territory, live ball.

However, Dakota, since the tree is natural, if there is no rule covered at the plate meeting, if it hits the tree and ends up in fair territory prior to 1st or 3rd, it would still be considered fair. It would be the same if there were substantial spin on the ball and it hits a rock in foul territory and bounces fair. You shouldn't make the foul call until the ball has either hit something not natural (backstop, equipment, person...okay, so a person is natural, but still would be foul), or has gone past the base.

[Dakota]

Originally posted by Striker991
Agreed:
These types of things need to be discussed at the plate meeting, covered under "ground rules." We have trees at one field down the first base line. We play Kingdome rule...in live ball territory, live ball.

However, Dakota, since the tree is natural, if there is no rule covered at the plate meeting, if it hits the tree and ends up in fair territory prior to 1st or 3rd, it would still be considered fair. It would be the same if there were substantial spin on the ball and it hits a rock in foul territory and bounces fair. You shouldn't make the foul call until the ball has either hit something not natural (backstop, equipment, person...okay, so a person is natural, but still would be foul), or has gone past the base.

The rule says "foreign to the natural ground." A rock is part of the ground. A tree isn't.

[Striker991]

[/B][/QUOTE]The rule says "foreign to the natural ground." A rock is part of the ground. A tree isn't. [/B][/QUOTE]

Huh????????

[Dakota]

Originally posted by Striker991

The rule says "foreign to the natural ground." A rock is part of the ground. A tree isn't. [/B][/QUOTE]

Huh????????

[/B][/QUOTE]The sentence is clear. What has you so mystified you can't express youself?

[Striker991]

A tree wasn't foreign to the natural ground...

At least that's what my forestry teacher tried to convince us of...

Hitting the tree over dead ball territory would always result in a dead ball...but not over live ball territory...you may have an issue with a catch, but not a fair ball.

[Dakota]

Originally posted by Striker991
A tree wasn't foreign to the natural ground...

At least that's what my forestry teacher tried to convince us of...

Hitting the tree over dead ball territory would always result in a dead ball...but not over live ball territory...you may have an issue with a catch, but not a fair ball.

I was quoting the definition of a foul ball, and in the situation presented, the ball hit tree branches hanging over foul territory. While trees come from the natural ground, they aren't part of the ground. At least that assertion is what I am claiming. If anyone has an authoritative ruling to the contrary, I'm open to it.

But, in the scenario presented, with no prior discussion of ground rules, I would have called foul ball.

[Striker991]

A couple of our trees are so big that the branches actually hang over fair territory. We always cover this in our plate meeting...however, say we didn't for some reason. Ball is hit high and touches a branch on the tree.

How would you handle this?

[Lenny F]

Hello, Newbie to this board here switching over from another board, so Hello to all.
I would have foul ball. I would have in pregame established tree and branches as foul. And in game covered or not in pregame (which is always best) call the ball foul. If not now you have established a ground rule that might be hard to later draw the line. eg: How far down the branch is foul/fair What if a ball is hit that is obviously going out of field of play hits trunk or base of limbs and comes bounding into f2's hands? or any fielder for that matter. And out of sarcarsm what if batted ball hits wood light pole what do you do then? Ok I know that is streching it But you see my point. Take Care
Lenny F.

[TexBlue]

I agree, ground rules prevail. If there are no ground rules, then if it hits the tree over foul territory, foul ball. If it hits the tree over fair territory, grounder. It isn't as hard as it's becoming in this discussion. AND YOU JUST GOTTA DISCUSS IT IN THE PREGAME. IT'S NOT LIKE YOU CAN'T SEE A TREE OVERHANGING THE FOUL TERRITORY BEHIND HOME PLATE! Actually, I'm gonna notice it right off and find the shade provided by Mother Nature.

[whiskers_ump]

Yeppers, but in Texas there are not many ball parks with
trees. At least not in this part. Just heat and humidity.