Appeal play - how to call it

[DTQ_Blue]

I was PU. R1 on 2nd, 1 out. Batter grounds out F3 unassisted. R1 chugs into 3rd and rounds the base. However she thought there were 3 outs and turned around and began running to her defensive position (thinking someone would bring her glove, I guess) she then realized that there were only 2 outs and would up safe back on 2nd. However she never retouched 3rd on her way. The defensive coach comes out to me and says that R1 missed third on her way back. I turn around and call her out for not retouching, but didn't verbalize that I was making the call "on appeal." My partner says to the whole stadium that the runner is not out and simply surrendered her right to third. I told my partner that that runner was my responsibility once she rounded third and my call would stand. So we talked about this after the game and he told me that unless I verbalized that my call was on appeal, he could only assume that I was making a call I could not make (because that call can only be made on appeal) and even if R1 hadn't retouched 3rd, the correct call is to treat her action as a legal surrender of 3B. So was my call improperly made and was BU correct in his action?

[AtlUmpSteve]

First, it is helpful to all in this forum when you indicate what set of rules are applicable. Was this NFHS, NCAA, USA/ASA, USSSA??

By and large, I would say you made YOUR call, and that BU overstepped his role. The appeal was made to YOU, regarding YOUR base, and you ruled appropriately. He had no role in that call, and violated the rule that I believe exists in most every set of rules, that he not comment nor attempt to be involved in, or change any call YOU make unless asked by YOU.

[MD Longhorn]

I'll be less diplomatic --- partner is an idiot. In all rulesets.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by DTQ_Blue

I was PU. R1 on 2nd, 1 out. Batter grounds out F3 unassisted. R1 chugs into 3rd and rounds the base. However she thought there were 3 outs and turned around and began running to her defensive position (thinking someone would bring her glove, I guess) she then realized that there were only 2 outs and would up safe back on 2nd. However she never retouched 3rd on her way. The defensive coach comes out to me and says that R1 missed third on her way back. I turn around and call her out for not retouching, but didn't verbalize that I was making the call "on appeal." My partner says to the whole stadium that the runner is not out and simply surrendered her right to third. I told my partner that that runner was my responsibility once she rounded third and my call would stand. So we talked about this after the game and he told me that unless I verbalized that my call was on appeal, he could only assume that I was making a call I could not make (because that call can only be made on appeal) and even if R1 hadn't retouched 3rd, the correct call is to treat her action as a legal surrender of 3B. So was my call improperly made and was BU correct in his action?

I would inform the OC about the appeal, then call the out.
No need for a major announcement.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

I'll be less diplomatic --- partner is an idiot. In all rulesets.

Even w/o announcing to the whole stadium.

[Andy]

There's some lessons to be learned here by both you and your partner.

The touch at third is your responsibility, therefore it's your call on an appeal.

As Cecil said, I would make sure that everybody knew that we had an appeal for the runner not re-touching third on her way back to second and that you were upholding the appeal and the runner was out.

Your partner should not have said anything, and if he had a question about what was happening, call time and come talk to you in private so you're both on the same page.

Your partner's actions probably made it appear that he didn't have confidence in your ruling and was making sure everybody knew it...all this is going to do is provide ammunition for the next time one of the coaches doesn't like your call and tries to work your partner against you.

[DTQ_Blue]

So I discussed this with the Commissioner of the Association. BU is well known in the ass'n for trying to "run the show" as he put it. He offered to not assign us to work together but I said that I'd like to work with him again and I'd try to have a frank pregame about working as a team. He has been around a long time and may be set in his ways, but he actually knows a lot so I'll try to make it work. If it doesn't I'll take the Commish's offer.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by DTQ_Blue

So I discussed this with the Commissioner of the Association. BU is well known in the ass'n for trying to "run the show" as he put it. He offered to not assign us to work together but I said that I'd like to work with him again and I'd try to have a frank pregame about working as a team. He has been around a long time and may be set in his ways, but he actually knows a lot so I'll try to make it work. If it doesn't I'll take the Commish's offer.

"Been around a long time" means only one thing, that he has been around a long time. It does not mean he has been doing it right all that time, just that he has persistently survived.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by DTQ_Blue

So I discussed this with the Commissioner of the Association. BU is well known in the ass'n for trying to "run the show" as he put it. He offered to not assign us to work together but I said that I'd like to work with him again and I'd try to have a frank pregame about working as a team. He has been around a long time and may be set in his ways, but he actually knows a lot so I'll try to make it work. If it doesn't I'll take the Commish's offer.

Good move. Great attitude !

[youngump]

Originally Posted by DTQ_Blue

I was PU. R1 on 2nd, 1 out. Batter grounds out F3 unassisted. R1 chugs into 3rd and rounds the base. However she thought there were 3 outs and turned around and began running to her defensive position (thinking someone would bring her glove, I guess) she then realized that there were only 2 outs and would up safe back on 2nd. However she never retouched 3rd on her way. The defensive coach comes out to me and says that R1 missed third on her way back. I turn around and call her out for not retouching, but didn't verbalize that I was making the call "on appeal." My partner says to the whole stadium that the runner is not out and simply surrendered her right to third. I told my partner that that runner was my responsibility once she rounded third and my call would stand. So we talked about this after the game and he told me that unless I verbalized that my call was on appeal, he could only assume that I was making a call I could not make (because that call can only be made on appeal) and even if R1 hadn't retouched 3rd, the correct call is to treat her action as a legal surrender of 3B. So was my call improperly made and was BU correct in his action?

If you don't mind, I'm somewhat curious how it played out after this. As in which coach did you all end up tossing? Or how did you avoid that?

[DTQ_Blue]

This game was on the way to a 20-0 slaughter rule outcome. The winning team made the base running gaffe. Their coach was not looking to further humiliate the other team by arguing that call. I told her her runner was out on appeal and she said "that's the right call."

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by DTQ_Blue

So I discussed this with the Commissioner of the Association. BU is well known in the ass'n for trying to "run the show" as he put it. He offered to not assign us to work together but I said that I'd like to work with him again and I'd try to have a frank pregame about working as a team. He has been around a long time and may be set in his ways, but he actually knows a lot so I'll try to make it work. If it doesn't I'll take the Commish's offer.

It's been my experience that umpires who have "been around a long time" but are "set in their ways" rarely "know a lot". They THINK they do ... but they often "know" things that are either no longer or true or were never true.

Good long-time umpires are not set in their ways. Because ways change.

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

It's been my experience that umpires who have "been around a long time" but are "set in their ways" rarely "know a lot". They THINK they do ... but they often "know" things that are either no longer or true or were never true.

Good long-time umpires are not set in their ways. Because ways change.

Once upon a time I was convinced to officiate football. The trainer of that organization said it this way to the newbies:

Decide who to trust and who to believe. There are two types of "I'm a 10th year official"; the one that has 9 years of experience, and the one that is a 1st year official for the 10th time."

Never truer words, and a message I will never forget.