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Old Wed Apr 19, 2017, 12:19pm
Black and Blue sometimes
 
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Grand Slam passing a runner - kind of

Bases loaded with 1 out.....batter hits a grand slam....runner on 3rd scores, runner on second scores....runner on first stops in the batters box and waits for the batter. The batter touches home plate and the runner from 1st never does....who is out? The batter or the base runner? Both since she still hasn't touched home plate prior to reaching the dugout?
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Old Wed Apr 19, 2017, 12:26pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RHughes7881 View Post
Bases loaded with 1 out.....batter hits a grand slam....runner on 3rd scores, runner on second scores....runner on first stops in the batters box and waits for the batter. The batter touches home plate and the runner from 1st never does....who is out? The batter or the base runner? Both since she still hasn't touched home plate prior to reaching the dugout?
No one is out unless the defense appeals. If there's an appeal the runner from first is out and only three runs score.
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Old Wed Apr 19, 2017, 12:45pm
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August 2014 plays and clarifications.

Play: (F.P. Only) With no outs and R1 on 3B, R2 on 2B and R3 on 1B, B4 hits an over the fence home run. R1 and R2 touch home plate in order but R3 stops short of home plate to pick up a bat and is passed by B4 who touches home plate. While returning to the dugout R3 touches home plate. The defense now appeals R3 for missing home plate.
Ruling: B2 should be called out for passing R3. (Rule 8, Section 7D) The ball remains live. (Rule 8, Section 7D EFFECT) When the defense appeals R3 missing home plate, the umpire should rule R3 safe since R3 touched home plate on the way back to the dugout before the appeal. (Rule 8, Section 8P)


There is an error in the ruling, B2 should actually be B4.
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Old Wed Apr 19, 2017, 12:50pm
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That is exactly what I thought.....had the visiting team appealed the runner (R3) having not touch home plate, she too would have been out and only 2 runs would have scored.
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Old Wed Apr 19, 2017, 03:05pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich Ives View Post
No one is out unless the defense appeals. If there's an appeal the runner from first is out and only three runs score.
Passing a runner is not an appeal play.


Quote:
Originally Posted by RKBUmp View Post
August 2014 plays and clarifications...There is an error in the ruling, B2 should actually be B4.
And another thing...the ball remains live? Following an over the fence home run???
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Old Wed Apr 19, 2017, 07:43pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BretMan View Post
And another thing...the ball remains live? Following an over the fence home run???
Bad use of the terminology. What they meant was that the PU should rule B4 out the moment she passes R3, but he/she shouldn't say or do anything that would cause R3 to stop in her attempt to still touch home plate.

Easier said than done, but the PU should probably just wait until all running is concluded, and then announce that B4 is out for passing R3.
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Old Wed Apr 19, 2017, 08:50pm
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Game today 2 runners on B3 hits HR R2 stops at batters box with all of her teammates to cheer on the batterers HR. I am inside the field to watch the runners touch home just as the batter is approaching the plate R2 realizes she needs to touch the plate and does just before B3. Lost a free out possibly 2
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Old Wed Apr 19, 2017, 08:53pm
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Originally Posted by Manny A View Post
Easier said than done, but the PU should probably just wait until all running is concluded, and then announce that B4 is out for passing R3.
Wouldn't that mislead the defense into thinking they still needed two more outs or being distracted by claiming that one?
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Old Thu Apr 20, 2017, 09:24am
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Keep in mind that to pass a runner, your ENTIRE body must be past the preceding runner. It is conceivably possible for the batter to touch home before the runner from first, without them breaking any rule. The OP did not state that BR actually COMPLETELY passed R1 (other than putting it in the title). To call him out for passing, he has to completely pass him... and if that happens, the call is immediate, not an appeal.

If BR did not completely pass R1 - then R1's miss of home is appealable.
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Old Thu Apr 20, 2017, 10:02am
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The runner didn't pass. She reached HP and didn't touch it. Merely a missed base.
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Old Thu Apr 20, 2017, 10:30am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich Ives View Post
The runner didn't pass. She reached HP and didn't touch it. Merely a missed base.
If so.
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Old Thu Apr 20, 2017, 11:26am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MD Longhorn View Post
Keep in mind that to pass a runner, your ENTIRE body must be past the preceding runner. It is conceivably possible for the batter to touch home before the runner from first, without them breaking any rule. The OP did not state that BR actually COMPLETELY passed R1 (other than putting it in the title). To call him out for passing, he has to completely pass him... and if that happens, the call is immediate, not an appeal.

If BR did not completely pass R1 - then R1's miss of home is appealable.
I cant remember where it was clarified, but a while back there was an actual play where the lead runner stopped short of home plate to avoid a tag and the trailing runner actually slide through the legs or next to the lead runner and scored ahead of the lead runner without completely physically passing the them. The ruling was the trailing runner cannot score ahead of the lead runner without having physically passed them.
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Old Thu Apr 20, 2017, 12:46pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich Ives View Post
The runner didn't pass. She reached HP and didn't touch it. Merely a missed base.
My bad. I guess that when the title said "passing a runner" I interpreted that as passing a runner...
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Old Thu Apr 20, 2017, 01:21pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RKBUmp View Post
I cant remember where it was clarified, but a while back there was an actual play where the lead runner stopped short of home plate to avoid a tag and the trailing runner actually slide through the legs or next to the lead runner and scored ahead of the lead runner without completely physically passing the them. The ruling was the trailing runner cannot score ahead of the lead runner without having physically passed them.
I remember that caseplay, but remember the opposite ruling. Guess we need to find it. If I recall correctly, the ruling even clarified that if there was a force, the scoring runner erased that force, and the runner could even return to 3rd if necessary.
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Old Thu Apr 20, 2017, 01:25pm
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Originally Posted by MD Longhorn View Post
I remember that caseplay, but remember the opposite ruling. Guess we need to find it. If I recall correctly, the ruling even clarified that if there was a force, the scoring runner erased that force, and the runner could even return to 3rd if necessary.
My recollection was that was the ruling made on the field, after it went to whatever ruling body it was, I think it may have been a high school game, the official ruling was a trailing runner cannot score ahead of the lead runner even if they do not completely pass them.

I cant figure out how to search for it, I have tried several different subject topics and nothing comes up. Im pretty sure it was a high school game, and I also believe it was either a playoff or championship game it happened in with a UIC on site. My recollection was the run was scored since the runner did not completely pass the lead runner and the lead runner actually returned back to 3rd safely. After it went to national the ruling made was a trailing runner cannot score ahead of a lead runner even if they do not physically pass.

Last edited by RKBUmp; Thu Apr 20, 2017 at 01:35pm.
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