Third Strike

[lpmx]

No outs, runners on second and third.
Pitch count is 2 balls and 2 strikes. Batter swings and misses for strike 3, the pitched ball hits the ground and bounces into the catchers mitt. The ball is caught and the coach yells for the batter to run to 1st as this is a dropped third strike. I am having trouble finding it in the rule book? Any help? Thank you.

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by lpmx

No outs, runners on second and third.
Pitch count is 2 balls and 2 strikes. Batter swings and misses for strike 3, the pitched ball hits the ground and bounces into the catchers mitt. The ball is caught and the coach yells for the batter to run to 1st as this is a dropped third strike. I am having trouble finding it in the rule book? Any help? Thank you.

Here's two places you can start (you didn't mention any rule set, so apply your own, but they both exist in every rule set:

1) Definitions; look at catch/no catch. Not a catch if it hits the ground.

2) The batter becomes a batter-runner:
When the catcher fails to catch the third strike before the ball touches the ground and ..........

[lpmx]

Thanks for the reply and help. It's NFHS

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by lpmx

Thanks for the reply and help. It's NFHS

8-1-1-b

[Manny A]

Just for completeness sake, a pitch that hits the ground before the catcher "catches" it is not a legal catch, by definition. If the batter swings and misses it, it is treated as a dropped third strike.

However, if that pitch hits the ground, the batter then swings and nicks it, and then the catcher catches it, it IS a caught batted ball. In this case, it would be ruled a foul tip. No different than had the batter golfed that pitch into the air and a fielder caught it in flight.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by Manny A

Just for completeness sake, a pitch that hits the ground before the catcher "catches" it is not a legal catch, by definition. .

Which is why we should always say "uncaught third strike"!

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by Manny A

However, if that pitch hits the ground, the batter then swings and nicks it, and then the catcher catches it, it IS a caught batted ball. In this case, it would be ruled a foul tip.

Given the rest of the foul tip definition.

[josephrt1]

I don't understand why catch/no-catch was brought into this discussion. If shortstop throws the ball to 1st base on a bounce and the 1st baseman controls it in the hand or glove, it is ruled a catch. The bounce doesn't matter. In the USA/ASA rule book definition of catch/no-catch it has nothing to do with dropped third strike.

The specific rule on dropped third strike is 8.1.b: When the catcher fails to catch the third strike before the ball touches the ground and there are:
1. Fewer than two outs and first base is not occupied at the time of the pitch, or
2. Any time there are two outs.

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by josephrt1

I don't understand why catch/no-catch was brought into this discussion. If shortstop throws the ball to 1st base on a bounce and the 1st baseman controls it in the hand or glove, it is ruled a catch. The bounce doesn't matter. In the USA/ASA rule book definition of catch/no-catch it has nothing to do with dropped third strike.

The specific rule on dropped third strike is 8.1.b: When the catcher fails to catch the third strike before the ball touches the ground and there are:
1. Fewer than two outs and first base is not occupied at the time of the pitch, or
2. Any time there are two outs.

There's a big difference, by rule, on how a Catch is treated on batted balls in flight, and on third strikes. How a fielder legally Catches a fly ball/line drive, or a catcher legally Catches a third strike, in order to record an out is much different than how a fielder catches a ball. What fielders do with their hands or gloves/mitts when they receive throws, when they field ground balls, etc., is irrelevant when it comes to the rules on retiring runners.

Read the rules on force plays, for example. They don't say the fielder has to legally Catch the ball in flight for the runner to be ruled out. All it requires is for the fielder to have secure possession of the ball in his/her hand or glove while touching the bag with any part of his/her body before the runner reaches the bag.

That's not the same requirement for a dropped third. The rule itself says the ball must be caught before it touches the ground, as you quoted.

The Definition of Catch is clear when it comes to when a ball is not a catch. It says it is not a catch when the ball strikes anything other than a defensive player when in flight, including the ground. So if the third strike hits the ground before the catcher catches it, it is not a Catch.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by josephrt1

I don't understand why catch/no-catch was brought into this discussion. If shortstop throws the ball to 1st base on a bounce and the 1st baseman controls it in the hand or glove, it is ruled a catch.

No it's not. It's ruled possession or control by F3 - which is all that's required to have a force out. Doesn't matter if F3 catches the ball --- it only matters that F3 possesses control of the ball.