USA/NCAA/NFHS differences chart

[ASA/NYSSOBLUE]

For your perusal:

http://downloads.asasoftball.com/ump...ifferences.pdf

[Tru_in_Blu]

Hard to believe there can't be consensus on this:

Numbers

USA: Uniform numbers; Players may not wear the same number, whether in the game or not. Numbers 0 and 00 are not considered to be the same number. 3.6D

NCAA: Players on the same team shall not wear the same number. 0 and 00 are considered the same number. 3.10.4

NFHS: No players on the same team may wear identical numbers, (0 and 00) are considered the same number. 3.2.2

I know a common sense argument wouldn't consider 1 and 11 to be the same number, but an extension of the logic might.

And while I'm at it, why can't the car manufacturers agree to have the gas filler pipe consistently on the same side for all vehicles??

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by Tru_in_Blu

Hard to believe there can't be consensus on this:

Numbers

USA: Uniform numbers; Players may not wear the same number, whether in the game or not. Numbers 0 and 00 are not considered to be the same number. 3.6D

NCAA: Players on the same team shall not wear the same number. 0 and 00 are considered the same number. 3.10.4

NFHS: No players on the same team may wear identical numbers, (0 and 00) are considered the same number. 3.2.2

I know a common sense argument wouldn't consider 1 and 11 to be the same number, but an extension of the logic might.

And while I'm at it, why can't the car manufacturers agree to have the gas filler pipe consistently on the same side for all vehicles??

Let's consider both the purpose of the rule, and the logic applied by each set.

Clearly, the purpose of uniform numbering is to have an absolute means of identifying and differentiating between players on the same team by opponents and scorekeepers; thus, no duplications. The rule related to fractions or decimals is to maintain some form of decorum.

The USA/ASA logic is that 0 and 00 are visually different for the purpose of identification.

The NCAA logic is that, despite being different in appearance, they have the same numerical value. Seriously?? Years ago, that was the ASA rule, but it was changed (by a stodgy group that hardly wants to change anything when "tradition" is a factor) when the logic (or lack of) was explained.

NFHS, like NCAA, started from the ASA rulebook, and has apparently never considered it necessary to address a change.

We are all entitled to a personal preference, but I just can't accept that the logical should shift to the illogical camp just for the sake of "consistency".

[Tru_in_Blu]

Well, not that my opinion matters to any of those associations, but I'm in the camp of 0 and 00 being "different numbers".

We're not adding these numbers up. "Values" of the numbers are inconsequential.

[Andy]

Originally Posted by Tru_in_Blu

Well, not that my opinion matters to any of those associations, but I'm in the camp of 0 and 00 being "different numbers".

We're not adding these numbers up. "Values" of the numbers are inconsequential.

Just a guess, but there could be some ramifications with all of the electronic score keeping and stats systems with using 0 for one player and 00 for another....

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by Andy

Just a guess, but there could be some ramifications with all of the electronic score keeping and stats systems with using 0 for one player and 00 for another....

There is.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

For many years the NFHS and NCAA considered 0 and 00 as different numbers for manyou of its sports. But with the development of software for keeping the scorebook and statistics the softwarend could not differentiate between 0 and 00, therefore, the rule change.

MTD, Sr.

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

For many years the NFHS and NCAA considered 0 and 00 as different numbers for manyou of its sports. But with the development of software for keeping the scorebook and statistics the softwarend could not differentiate between 0 and 00, therefore, the rule change.

MTD, Sr.

So they establish game rules because software programmers are too foolish or too rigid to establish those entry fields as alphanumeric rather than numeric? That's such a simple change, it's absurd. And the NCAA mandates what software the schools must use, so they certainly have the ability to insist on correction.

Personally, I really doubt that is the reason. Rather, I believe that "justification" is an after-the-fact excuse to obfuscate the truth.

[Altor]

IMO, it's poorly written software then. The player number should be a string not an integer. You don't add or subtract or perform other calculations with the digits. They have no numeric value...they are just symbols.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

So they establish game rules because software programmers are too foolish or too rigid to establish those entry fields as alphanumeric rather than numeric? That's such a simple change, it's absurd. And the NCAA mandates what software the schools must use, so they certainly have the ability to insist on correction.

Personally, I really doubt that is the reason. Rather, I believe that "justification" is an after-the-fact excuse to obfuscate the truth.

Originally Posted by Altor

IMO, it's poorly written software then. The player number should be a string not an integer. You don't add or subtract or perform other calculations with the digits. They have no numeric value...they are just symbols.

Addressing AtlUmpSteve first. Considering I officiated women's college basketball from 1974 to 2008, and the rule change was made in the late 1980s or early 1990s (I am in Florida for Spring training college softball right now, so I cannot climb up into my attic and check my rules books for the exact year the change was made and if I were a betting man I would bet on the early 1990s), that was the exact reason the NFHS and NCAA gavE for the rule change.

And addressing Alton, I would agree that even it should not that difficult to write code that differentiated between the two numbers.

MTD, Sr.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by ASA/NYSSOBLUE

For your perusal:

http://downloads.asasoftball.com/ump...ifferences.pdf

I'm always looking for one without NCAA , which I no longer need.

[Umpire@1]

I would like to have one of those also.

[CecilOne]

Still wondering if there is a non-NCAA rules differences for NFHS and USA.

Anyone know??