Is it Fair of foul

[Umpire@1]

Please excuse me if this has been discussed in the past.

Men's slow pitch, ASA rules, with double first base. Batter hit a ground ball in fair territory but is heading foul, then hits the orange base in foul territory and lands in fair territory. Is it fair or foul?

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by Umpire@1

Please excuse me if this has been discussed in the past.

Men's slow pitch, ASA rules, with double first base. Batter hit a ground ball in fair territory but is heading foul, then hits the orange base in foul territory and lands in fair territory. Is it fair or foul?

Did it land in fair territory as a richochet past the base or backward before the base? IOW, was the fair territory past the base or not?

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

I do not know why but the title of this thread reminded me of the The Clash's hit: "Should I Stay, or Should I Go?"

MTD, Sr.

[DaveASA/FED]

Have to go back to definition of foul ball and fair ball. An exact description is needed to make an accurate ruling. Since you are saying a ground ball I assume it is a bounding ball. So it bounces in fair in front of 1B then hits the orange bag then comes back into fair territory past 1B. It would appear by FOUL BALL point C, once it touched the orange base (which is an object foreign to the natural ground)it is a foul ball.

FOUL BALL: A batted ball that:
C. While over foul territory, touches the person, attached or detached equipment or clothing of a player or an umpire, or any object foreign to the natural ground.

[BlueDevilRef]

Dave gets a cookie for the correct answer

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Umpire@1

Please excuse me if this has been discussed in the past.

Men's slow pitch, ASA rules, with double first base. Batter hit a ground ball in fair territory but is heading foul, then hits the orange base in foul territory and lands in fair territory. Is it fair or foul?

In any ASA game, the definitions do not change just because it is a double base.

If the batted ball crosses over any part of the white portion of the base it is a fair ball regardless of where it lands (1.Fair Ball.B)

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

In any ASA game, the definitions do not change just because it is a double base.

If the batted ball crosses over any part of the white portion of the base it is a fair ball regardless of where it lands (1.Fair Ball.B)

If baseball it's foul because it hit an object foreign to the natural ground while in foul territory. There is a post above that says the same in softball.

[chapmaja]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

In any ASA game, the definitions do not change just because it is a double base.

If the batted ball crosses over any part of the white portion of the base it is a fair ball regardless of where it lands (1.Fair Ball.B)

I would agree with this. If it passed over the white portion of the base to get to the orange portion of the base, it is a fair ball. With that said, you better be very sure if you are calling this a fair ball, because the angle you have to make the call isn't very good and you know if you call it fair, there is likely to be a big brown storm following. The defense may make the play at first and then the offense will be moaning. The defense doesn't make the play and they are moaning. Sadly, the person with the best view on this play is likely the first base coach, who also likely will be the most vocal.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Rich Ives

If baseball it's foul because it hit an object foreign to the natural ground while in foul territory. There is a post above that says the same in softball.

Then the baseball folks are pretty stupid. How can you call a ball foul AFTER it has already met the qualifications of a fair ball?

In your statement, a bounding ball which hits fair behind 1B must be declared foul if it subsequently hits a stray hot dog wrapper of anything else.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by chapmaja

I would agree with this. If it passed over the white portion of the base to get to the orange portion of the base, it is a fair ball. With that said, you better be very sure if you are calling this a fair ball, because the angle you have to make the call isn't very good and you know if you call it fair, there is likely to be a big brown storm following. The defense may make the play at first and then the offense will be moaning. The defense doesn't make the play and they are moaning. Sadly, the person with the best view on this play is likely the first base coach, who also likely will be the most vocal.

Haven't umpires had to make this call for decades before the double base was introduced? Simply because you place an colored base next to the original base shouldn't have any affect on the call.

And as an umpire, you shouldn't care less who is moaning about a legitimate call

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

And as an umpire, you shouldn't care less who is moaning about a legitimate call

YYYEEAAAAAHHHHYYYY !

[AtlUmpSteve]

Let's start cleanly.

The orange bag is in foul territory; and it isn't the natural ground. BUT,

A bounding ball that starts fair CAN cross the fair white base and still touch the orange base; if it crosses the fair white base, it is a fair ball, NO MATTER WHERE IT LANDS, RIGHT?? See fair ball definition (B).

Judgment call. Touching the orange bag (which is in foul territory, and is foreign to the natural ground, but both points are possibly immaterial) does not preclude it from also being a fair ball.

[teebob21]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

Let's start cleanly.

The orange bag is in foul territory; and it isn't the natural ground. BUT,

A bounding ball that starts fair CAN cross the fair white base and still touch the orange base; if it crosses the fair white base, it is a fair ball, NO MATTER WHERE IT LANDS, RIGHT?? See fair ball definition (B).

Judgment call. Touching the orange bag (which is in foul territory, and is foreign to the natural ground, but both points are possibly immaterial) does not preclude it from also being a fair ball.

Does the ball have to pass ALL the white base or any part of it?

To get scientific about it...a ball bouncing FROM fair territory that does NOT hit the front of the orange base (which would be foul), but DOES bounce on the top of the orange, and has passed over some of the white. Is this fair?

I say it is.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by teebob21

Does the ball have to pass ALL the white base or any part of it?

To get scientific about it...a ball bouncing FROM fair territory that does NOT hit the front of the orange base (which would be foul), but DOES bounce on the top of the orange, and has passed over some of the white. Is this fair?

I say it is.

What do you mean by "pass ALL the white base". Both front edge and rear edge? No.

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Then the baseball folks are pretty stupid. How can you call a ball foul AFTER it has already met the qualifications of a fair ball?

.

OP: "Batter hit a ground ball in fair territory but is heading foul, then hits the orange base in foul territory . . "

Where did it meet the qualifications for a fair ball? It went up the line and hit the colored part of the base. Foreign object in foul territory. What do you think made it fair? Foul all day.