Is it Fair of foul

[chapmaja]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

In any ASA game, the definitions do not change just because it is a double base.

If the batted ball crosses over any part of the white portion of the base it is a fair ball regardless of where it lands (1.Fair Ball.B)

I would agree with this. If it passed over the white portion of the base to get to the orange portion of the base, it is a fair ball. With that said, you better be very sure if you are calling this a fair ball, because the angle you have to make the call isn't very good and you know if you call it fair, there is likely to be a big brown storm following. The defense may make the play at first and then the offense will be moaning. The defense doesn't make the play and they are moaning. Sadly, the person with the best view on this play is likely the first base coach, who also likely will be the most vocal.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by chapmaja

I would agree with this. If it passed over the white portion of the base to get to the orange portion of the base, it is a fair ball. With that said, you better be very sure if you are calling this a fair ball, because the angle you have to make the call isn't very good and you know if you call it fair, there is likely to be a big brown storm following. The defense may make the play at first and then the offense will be moaning. The defense doesn't make the play and they are moaning. Sadly, the person with the best view on this play is likely the first base coach, who also likely will be the most vocal.

Haven't umpires had to make this call for decades before the double base was introduced? Simply because you place an colored base next to the original base shouldn't have any affect on the call.

And as an umpire, you shouldn't care less who is moaning about a legitimate call

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

And as an umpire, you shouldn't care less who is moaning about a legitimate call

YYYEEAAAAAHHHHYYYY !

[AtlUmpSteve]

Let's start cleanly.

The orange bag is in foul territory; and it isn't the natural ground. BUT,

A bounding ball that starts fair CAN cross the fair white base and still touch the orange base; if it crosses the fair white base, it is a fair ball, NO MATTER WHERE IT LANDS, RIGHT?? See fair ball definition (B).

Judgment call. Touching the orange bag (which is in foul territory, and is foreign to the natural ground, but both points are possibly immaterial) does not preclude it from also being a fair ball.

[teebob21]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

Let's start cleanly.

The orange bag is in foul territory; and it isn't the natural ground. BUT,

A bounding ball that starts fair CAN cross the fair white base and still touch the orange base; if it crosses the fair white base, it is a fair ball, NO MATTER WHERE IT LANDS, RIGHT?? See fair ball definition (B).

Judgment call. Touching the orange bag (which is in foul territory, and is foreign to the natural ground, but both points are possibly immaterial) does not preclude it from also being a fair ball.

Does the ball have to pass ALL the white base or any part of it?

To get scientific about it...a ball bouncing FROM fair territory that does NOT hit the front of the orange base (which would be foul), but DOES bounce on the top of the orange, and has passed over some of the white. Is this fair?

I say it is.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by teebob21

Does the ball have to pass ALL the white base or any part of it?

To get scientific about it...a ball bouncing FROM fair territory that does NOT hit the front of the orange base (which would be foul), but DOES bounce on the top of the orange, and has passed over some of the white. Is this fair?

I say it is.

What do you mean by "pass ALL the white base". Both front edge and rear edge? No.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by teebob21

Does the ball have to pass ALL the white base or any part of it?

No, and you are starting to sound like a coach trying to bullshit an umpire

To get scientific about it...a ball bouncing FROM fair territory that does NOT hit the front of the orange base (which would be foul), but DOES bounce on the top of the orange, and has passed over some of the white. Is this fair?

I say it is.

"Bounds over" is how the rule reads in the definition of a "fair ball". It does not demand a specific % of the base or the ball, just whether the ball goes over the base. Should be handled the same as a pitch passing over any part of the plate

[Umpire@1]

I sent the umpire that asked me this question to Rule 8, section 2, N 2 on page 95 of the 2016 ASA rule book.
It specifically states, that A batted ball hitting or bounding over the contrasting color portion is foul.

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by teebob21

Does the ball have to pass ALL the white base or any part of it?

To get scientific about it...a ball bouncing FROM fair territory that does NOT hit the front of the orange base (which would be foul), but DOES bounce on the top of the orange, and has passed over some of the white. Is this fair?

I say it is.

Yep. Any part of the bounding ball over any part of the white base is fair; just like any part of the pitched ball over any part of the plate (at the correct height) is a strike.

[josephrt1]

In the rare situation where it bounced in such a way that it pretty much took a 90 degree angle and went over some of the white base before touching the orange base, I would call this fair because of the definition of Fair Ball, line B "Bounds over or past first or third base, which is in fair territory, regardless of where the ball hits after going over the base."

That is what most of you are saying and that's they way i was taught and interpret the book and definition of Fair Ball and how i would call it.

But Rich Ives makes a point that in 8.7.N.2 it plainly states "A batted ball hitting or bounding over the contrasting color portion is foul." That line is the source of the controversy. Although if the ball went over the white base it should be called fair; that line in 8.7.N.2. does not allow for that situation. it simply says the ball is foul when it touches the contrasting color base.

I would still call it fair.