when is it an appeal?

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

What everyone has stated is true. This does not meet the definition of an appeal. But I was taught we don't stop there.

The reason we accept live ball appeals that are clear is because we understand what they are doing; making a specific appeal. The reason softball has dead ball appeals (that baseball doesn't) is to eliminate the mystique surrounding the exact proper sequence to make an appeal.

Well, the same logic needs to apply to an effort to make an appeal. From the very beginning of the OP, everyone reading it, as well as the writer, understood the defensive team was (incorrectly)attempting to make an appeal. That should be enough to consider addressing the process.

The prior ASA NUS (I no longer can speak to what is being revised, reinterpreted, and relearned by the current regime, but this came from HP and MB) taught us that the way to handle this scenario was:

1) Call "Time" for them when you recognize what is being attempted.
2) Ask "What are trying to do?" If they say "Make an appeal" (you already knew that!!), you rule on it, if you can.
3) If insufficient information has been provided, you ask "What exactly are appealing?" If necessary, you even ask, "Which runner?", and/or "Which base?"

The appeal process, especially as done in the dead ball manner, is not supposed to require specific wording, a 3 step handshake, or even the antics the defense uses to tell each other how many outs there are. Find out what they are trying to do, and rule on it. If the offense left a base early, or missed a base, the defense deserves the proper result for making an appeal, not a run-round over the exact process.

Again, that was the HP and MB way, taught thru ~2005. I never heard it revised, as I attended National UIC Clinics thru ~2012.

I can second this (once dead ball appeals were permitted), and it wasn't just HP & MB, but from any UIC with which I dealt

The reason coaches cannot make appeals is probably leftover from when the team had to make appeals during a live ball. That made for some real interesting plays in the SP game.

[CecilOne]

It looks like the consensus is that
- the team was attempting a live ball appeal;
- they did not complete a real appeal because they did not say so;
- that the umpires should have done more as described by Steve

"1) Call "Time" for them when you recognize what is being attempted.
2) Ask "What are trying to do?" If they say "Make an appeal" (you already knew that!!), you rule on it, if you can.
3) If insufficient information has been provided, you ask "What exactly are appealing?" If necessary, you even ask, "Which runner?", and/or "Which base?""


BTW, side conversations later:
- the catcher said they thought that R2 missed 3rd;
- the BU said R2 did touch 3rd