Courtesy Runner Question.

[chapmaja]

We have a league rule that the courtesy runner (for pitcher or catcher) shall be the last out. We also have bat around rule for this league (11 batters in this situation).

The other night we had this in the bottom of the first. 3 runs in when the pitcher walks with the bases loaded. Nobody out. Offensive coach wants to use a CR for the pitcher. Who do you use, it can't be the last out because the last out doesn't exist? They wanted the 11th batter in the order, who had no chance of getting up to bat. The opposing coach wanted the farthest in the batting order.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by chapmaja

We have a league rule that the courtesy runner (for pitcher or catcher) shall be the last out. We also have bat around rule for this league (11 batters in this situation).

The other night we had this in the bottom of the first. 3 runs in when the pitcher walks with the bases loaded. Nobody out. Offensive coach wants to use a CR for the pitcher. Who do you use, it can't be the last out because the last out doesn't exist? They wanted the 11th batter in the order, who had no chance of getting up to bat. The opposing coach wanted the farthest in the batting order.

As there is no rule book that we can see as a strictly local rule; I think you are asking about logic. I would interpret "last out" as either
- last completed at bat (the R who just scored ?)
or
- the "farthest in the order", like a TBR runner.
Can you really say the 11th can't bat or just can't bat while on base as a CR?
If 4 scored, 3 on, 2 outs = next batter is the 10th. If successful, 11th would be up while CR for pitcher in 7th slot.

LRAMBF LRAMBF LRAMBF

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by chapmaja

We have a league rule that the courtesy runner (for pitcher or catcher) shall be the last out. We also have bat around rule for this league (11 batters in this situation).

The other night we had this in the bottom of the first. 3 runs in when the pitcher walks with the bases loaded. Nobody out. Offensive coach wants to use a CR for the pitcher. Who do you use, it can't be the last out because the last out doesn't exist? They wanted the 11th batter in the order, who had no chance of getting up to bat. The opposing coach wanted the farthest in the batting order.

Sounds like local rule is poorly written. Should probably be worded in a manner that would allow the last available batter in the order that is available (on the bench). IOW, start from the batter presently in the box and work backward until you find one that is on the bench.

[chapmaja]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

As there is no rule book that we can see as a strictly local rule; I think you are asking about logic. I would interpret "last out" as either
- last completed at bat (the R who just scored ?)
or
- the "farthest in the order", like a TBR runner.
Can you really say the 11th can't bat or just can't bat while on base as a CR?
If 4 scored, 3 on, 2 outs = next batter is the 10th. If successful, 11th would be up while CR for pitcher in 7th slot.

LRAMBF LRAMBF LRAMBF

yes, the 11th can't bat. 4 runs in, 3 runners on makes 7, 2 outs makes 9 batters up. No matter what happens with the 10th batter, we have either hit the 5 runs per inning rule, or have the third out, so the 11th does not bat. Normally the 11th would be able to bat, and potentially could be on base when due up to bat. (Sorry, I thought I mentioned the 5 run rule in the past, but apparently had not).

We had an adult league a few years ago that had a rule requiring the CR to be the last out. The problem was the last out was the first our of the inning (first batter), so when the pitcher (who could hardly walk on the field let alone run), walked to get on base, they used the last out as the CR. The problem is they had gone through the entire order and the batter used as the CR (the last out) was also the next batter due up. The rule also stipulated that when a CR is due to bat, the at bat is declared out. It was a mess and the rule has since been rewritten.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by chapmaja

we had an adult league a few years ago that had a rule requiring the cr to be the last out. The problem was the last out was the first our of the inning (first batter), so when the pitcher (who could hardly walk on the field let alone run), walked to get on base, they used the last out as the cr. The problem is they had gone through the entire order and the batter used as the cr (the last out) was also the next batter due up. The rule also stipulated that when a cr is due to bat, the at bat is declared out. It was a mess and the rule has since been rewritten.

lrambf lrambf lrambf

[Big Slick]

This might be the one league or invitational tournament rule that I totally despise. The "last batted out" or "last out" is poor language. While it is usually accompanied with a "only two outs," there still is the possibility of the CR being on base when he/she is due at bat.

I've always tried to encourage a solution like Mike proposed: the one who is closest in preceding the catcher/pitcher and not on base (which is the ISF rule for the catcher with two outs only) OR use the ("new") ASA slow pitch rule: anyone can run, but if they are on base, remove them from base, call them out, then let that person have their time at bat.

[BlueDevilRef]

Or, since this rule is designed to be a COURTESY to the "most important" skill positions, we could just use common sense, and even if the last available was used and is now on base, just replace them and play on.