Look back rule - ASA 8-7-T

[teebob21]

I need a refresher on a specific situation with the look-back rule. What are the obligations of runners after the BR has reached first base and continues to run? A strict reading of the rule makes me think that once the ball is in the circle and the BR has reached or passed 1B, all runners are under the LB rule.

Situation: R3 on 3B. BR walks on ball 4, reaches 1B and continues nonstop to second. The ball is in the circle, no play on either runner made by F1. R3 advances 8-10 feet towards HP as BR continues toward 2B. R3 starts "dancing", hopping forward and back several times in an attempt to draw a throw. Out or no?

As plate umpire, I called a Dead Ball when I saw this. I immediately thought I had goofed: this was a 3-umpire game and that runner should have been the responsibility of my U3....PLUS I brainlocked on the rule (thus this post). We hand-waved away the dead ball and life went on with runners at 2B and 3B. My partners think we got it right on the field. I think I should have called the out and returned the BR to 1B, even if that means stepping on my partner's primary call. (Which I apologized for in postgame...)

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by teebob21

A strict reading of the rule makes me think that once the ball is in the circle and the BR has reached or passed 1B, all runners are under the LB rule.

Correct.

[teebob21]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

Correct.

Dang it. I let a free out slip between my fingers.

[Andy]

Originally Posted by teebob21

Dang it. I let a free out slip between my fingers.

Yes, you did.....The coverage on this is also a good thing to pre-game with your partner(s)

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by Andy

Yes, you did.....The coverage on this is also a good thing to pre-game with your partner(s)

Especially those who turn their backs too soon !

[teebob21]

Originally Posted by Andy

Yes, you did.....The coverage on this is also a good thing to pre-game with your partner(s)

Andy, this is good advice. I made the dead-ball call because I temporarily let my mind slip back into 2-man mode...but whatever: it was made. Since you and I work together in the AZ area, you know both of my partners for this game and they are good umpires. Unfortunately, based on the postgame comments, my re-reading the book, and the comments in this thread, they were incorrect, and ultimately we made the wrong call as a crew.

I can admit that I've never pregamed LBR coverages. I will do so in the future. Two questions:

(1) Should I have gotten my partners together on the field to make the right call, after I called the dead ball and a bit of confusion broke out?
(2) Should this happen again, and the U3 misses or ignores it, what should the crew do? Let U3 eat it?

[Andy]

Originally Posted by teebob21

Andy, this is good advice. I made the dead-ball call because I temporarily let my mind slip back into 2-man mode...but whatever: it was made. Since you and I work together in the AZ area, you know both of my partners for this game and they are good umpires. Unfortunately, based on the postgame comments, my re-reading the book, and the comments in this thread, they were incorrect, and ultimately we made the wrong call as a crew.

I can admit that I've never pregamed LBR coverages. I will do so in the future. Two questions:

(1) Should I have gotten my partners together on the field to make the right call, after I called the dead ball and a bit of confusion broke out?
(2) Should this happen again, and the U3 misses or ignores it, what should the crew do? Let U3 eat it?

The reason I suggested the pre-game is more geared toward two-umpire mechanics. Often, in the situation described, both umpires will be watching the batter-runner and nobody is watching the other runner(s). I've always split it so that the BU has the B/R and the PU has any other runners. Any umpire can kill the play and call a violation on the LBR. I will admit right now that I am not sure of the proper coverage in a three umpire game, but I would hope that all three umpires would not be focused on one runner.

This is one of those calls that we don't make very often and with multiple runners, it may be a good idea to get your crew together to talk through the call and the penalty since some of the crew may have been focused elsewhere or moving to cover a potential play. This would be similar to what we are asked to do in the college game when we have a DDB call like an illegal pitch or a runner leaving the base prior to the pitch.

As I mentioned above, any umpire can kill the play and make the LBR call. If you are 100% certain that it was you have, I would give my U3 a chance to call it first, then come in strong with the call if U3 doesn't.

[Dakota]

Since I don't use the LBR as a "gotcha", precise timing is not required (unlike, say, tagging up on a fly ball). I have never had a problem keeping an eye on all runners, even when the BR going to 1B is loading the bases.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Andy

The reason I suggested the pre-game is more geared toward two-umpire mechanics. Often, in the situation described, both umpires will be watching the batter-runner and nobody is watching the other runner(s). I've always split it so that the BU has the B/R and the PU has any other runners. Any umpire can kill the play and call a violation on the LBR. I will admit right now that I am not sure of the proper coverage in a three umpire game, but I would hope that all three umpires would not be focused on one runner.

This is one of those calls that we don't make very often and with multiple runners, it may be a good idea to get your crew together to talk through the call and the penalty since some of the crew may have been focused elsewhere or moving to cover a potential play. This would be similar to what we are asked to do in the college game when we have a DDB call like an illegal pitch or a runner leaving the base prior to the pitch.

As I mentioned above, any umpire can kill the play and make the LBR call. If you are 100% certain that it was you have, I would give my U3 a chance to call it first, then come in strong with the call if U3 doesn't.

If you called an LBR violation, you damn well be sure and there is only one penalty. IMO, the only thing that may need to be discussed would be runner placement had a runner other than the violator was active on the base path at the time of the call.