sub

[Andy]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

A starter, replaced, reentered, replaced, reentered a second time.
I recognized her because originally a pitcher and because I said "that's her reentry" to the coach the first time.
Might not have noticed right away if an outfielder.

That's what I was thinking....I still wouldn't have done anything on my own.
You now have an illegal substitute, which carries a heavier penalty that could be to the other team's advantage.

Let the other team bring it up when it is to their advantage. If they don't, then they weren't paying attention or chose not to appeal.

This all assumes the player was not reported, if the coach tries to report her back in the game, you are obviously not going to allow it.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Andy

That's what I was thinking....I still wouldn't have done anything on my own.
You now have an illegal substitute, which carries a heavier penalty that could be to the other team's advantage.

Let the other team bring it up when it is to their advantage. If they don't, then they weren't paying attention or chose not to appeal.

This all assumes the player was not reported, if the coach tries to report her back in the game, you are obviously not going to allow it.

I disagree. IMO, if you know a player is not entitled to enter the game, you don't allow it just as you wouldn't allow a team to move the FLEX into a position in the batter order for other than the DP

[chapmaja]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

I disagree. IMO, if you know a player is not entitled to enter the game, you don't allow it just as you wouldn't allow a team to move the FLEX into a position in the batter order for other than the DP

What about the legal standpoint on this. Player A has illegally entered the game. She is later injured while participating illegally in the game. The scorebooks show that she should not have been in the game. The family of said player now decide to sue anyone and everyone for this injury. Now you have an issue to deal with. Even if you are not ruled against, and you have insurance to cover defending a lawsuit like this, you have the aggravation of dealing with this.

If you knowingly allow an illegal player into the game, and the rules specifically say when noticed, but don't specify by whom, you are expected to rule when you notice. Failure to do so is not following the rules.

[RKBUmp]

An illegal sub in NFHS carries more penalties and the offended coach can choose to take the result of the play or a do over if the illegal sub is involved in a play. What would your response be to a coach that was waiting for an opportune time to use the illegal sub to their advantage?

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by RKBUmp

An illegal sub in NFHS carries more penalties and the offended coach can choose to take the result of the play or a do over if the illegal sub is involved in a play. What would your response be to a coach that was waiting for an opportune time to use the illegal sub to their advantage?

Too bad, sorry, but rules are rules; and they are my job.

[chapmaja]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

Too bad, sorry, but rules are rules; and they are my job.

Completely agree. The rule should not read an illegal substitute may be discovered by the UMPIRE or by either team if they did not want the umpires doing this job. The rule is written the way it is for a reason. If we notice it, we need to enforce it. If the opposing team is "waiting for the opportune time" they are using this as gamesmanship more than playing within the spirit of the rules anyway.

I would have no problem if the rules said an illegal player may be noticed by either team, but that is not what the rule says.

What would I say to the coach who was waiting. "Coach, I am obligated under the rules to deal with it in this manner when I notice it."

[RKBUmp]

The rule says nothing about the umpire being obligated to enforce it when noticed. The rule says may be discovered by the umpire.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

Too bad, sorry, but rules are rules; and they are my job.

So, do you make it a point to recognize every player on both teams, so you know when this happens each and every time?

Or, do you selectively enforce this against players that stand out for some reason?

[Rich]

When I notice one, in baseball, I don't allow it. I can't notice all of them, but I can't help that.

[chapmaja]

Originally Posted by Dakota

So, do you make it a point to recognize every player on both teams, so you know when this happens each and every time?

Or, do you selectively enforce this against players that stand out for some reason?

You call what you can see. No different than having the bases loaded trying to call a running leaving early. You may not notice every time every runner leaves contact with the base, but are you going to not call it if you see it happen?

[chapmaja]

Originally Posted by RKBUmp

The rule says nothing about the umpire being obligated to enforce it when noticed. The rule says may be discovered by the umpire.

However, if you as an umpire notice it, since it is a rules violation, you are obligated to call it. It's called doing your job. The rule certainly does not say, "The umpire may notice an illegal substitute and fail to act upon it"

The simple fact is when you notice something illegal you have an obligation to act upon that knowledge in accordance with the rules.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by Dakota

So, do you make it a point to recognize every player on both teams, so you know when this happens each and every time?

Or, do you selectively enforce this against players that stand out for some reason?

I continue to appreciate your wisdom.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by chapmaja

The simple fact is when you notice something illegal you have an obligation to act upon that knowledge in accordance with the rules.

Except those specifically requiring an appeal.

[Altor]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

Except those specifically requiring an appeal.

"in accordance with the rules."

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by Altor

"in accordance with the rules."

Hopefully.