Batting out of order

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by RKBUmp

Don't see how the NCAA rule makes any sense at all. There is essentially no penalty so it just invites the coach purposely bat out of order. Makes it way too easy to purposely reeset the batting order.

There's ZERO benefit from batting out of order on purpose. You either do something that benefits the other team, or you get your at bat nullified and add an out.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by BretMan

You are correct, sir!

ASA changed their rule (2 years ago?) to negate the improper batter's at-bat, aligning themselves with other organizations. Prior to that, they would have enforced the out made by the improper batter.

Not anymore!

Thank you all! Had this in a game yesterday, FLEX batting for #7 slot even though DP was in #2 slot.
Yes, illegal sub, but was it really BOO ?

[Big Slick]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

Thank you all! Had this in a game yesterday, FLEX batting for #7 slot even though DP was in #2 slot.
Yes, illegal sub, but was it really BOO ?

Not BOO. Covered under 4-3-I, with penalty listed under 4-6-F-2.

Case play a few years ago about Flex batting after #9 batter. If the DP is batting in first batting position, it would be unreported, else is would be illegal player.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by Big Slick

Not BOO. Covered under 4-3-I, with penalty listed under 4-6-F-2.

Case play a few years ago about Flex batting after #9 batter. If the DP is batting in first batting position, it would be unreported, else is would be illegal player.

Good, thanks. Reporting is required, I know. Discussion yesterday if reporting of DP playing defense for other than FLEX is required. I think it is.

[Big Slick]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

Good, thanks. Reporting is required, I know. Discussion yesterday if reporting of DP playing defense for other than FLEX is required. I think it is.

To which I say: what is the penalty?

4-3-e says the DP may play defense, and that person has not left the game.

The definition of substitute is " . . left the game"

4-6-a is about reporting substitutions.

Doesn't need to be reported because this isn't a substitution.
Additionally,
4-1-a does say that " . . The line up shall contain . . . defensive positions . . "; however there is allowance to correct (without penalty) the other aspects of the line up card, such as name, number, and the list of substitutes.

Ergo,: what is the penalty?

I will only mark it down (ASA/NFHS) if the DP is catching or pitching, because this now is part of CR's. And in discussion this weekend (training a new umpire with the line up card), there isn't a name for the person only hitting and not the DP (ASA/NFHS). The infamous "TDP" was said, to which I immediately squashed, because the hitting only person could be confused as the DP and the flex could be used offensively for the wrong person.

NCAA is a must report, because there is a penalty for having an inaccurate line up card (including defensive positions). Plus, NCAA now has the OP (offensive player).

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by Big Slick

To which I say: what is the penalty?

4-3-e says the DP may play defense, and that person has not left the game.

The definition of substitute is " . . left the game"

4-6-a is about reporting substitutions.

Doesn't need to be reported because this isn't a substitution.
Additionally,
4-1-a does say that " . . The line up shall contain . . . defensive positions . . "; however there is allowance to correct (without penalty) the other aspects of the line up card, such as name, number, and the list of substitutes.

Ergo,: what is the penalty?

I will only mark it down (ASA/NFHS) if the DP is catching or pitching, because this now is part of CR's. And in discussion this weekend (training a new umpire with the line up card), there isn't a name for the person only hitting and not the DP (ASA/NFHS). The infamous "TDP" was said, to which I immediately squashed, because the hitting only person could be confused as the DP and the flex could be used offensively for the wrong person.

NCAA is a must report, because there is a penalty for having an inaccurate line up card (including defensive positions). Plus, NCAA now has the OP (offensive player).

Thanks again, I will retrain my lineup card brain.
BTW, I use BP (bench player) when I note a non-DP batting only player, open to anything better.
Agree, it only matters for CR.

The issue arose because a coach took the F5 out of the game, moved F7 to F5, F4 to F7; had not used a sub, but still had an F4. Took about 6 - 7 questions and 5 minutes before he said the DP had already been in the game as F4 and the new F4 was the previous "BP". Generally confused coach, so that's why I gave it so much attention.

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

Thanks again, I will retrain my lineup card brain.
BTW, I use BP (bench player) when I note a non-DP batting only player, open to anything better.
Agree, it only matters for CR.

The issue arose because a coach took the F5 out of the game, moved F7 to F5, F4 to F7; had not used a sub, but still had an F4. Took about 6 - 7 questions and 5 minutes before he said the DP had already been in the game as F4 and the new F4 was the previous "BP". Generally confused coach, so that's why I gave it so much attention.

If you feel the need to give it a name, while BP is probably more accurate, I would suggest you use a name that someone else calls it.

NCAA calls that player now not playing defense because the DP is playing it for her the "OP" (offensive player), ISF calls it "OFFO" (offensive only, the counterpart to DEFO).

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

If you feel the need to give it a name, while BP is probably more accurate, I would suggest you use a name that someone else calls it.

NCAA calls that player now not playing defense because the DP is playing it for her the "OP" (offensive player), ISF calls it "OFFO" (offensive only, the counterpart to DEFO).

Both good. More likely to match up with NCAA umps than ISF, so OP it is.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

Thank you all! Had this in a game yesterday, FLEX batting for #7 slot even though DP was in #2 slot.
Yes, illegal sub, but was it really BOO ?

How did this happen?

[CecilOne]

Searched this for a specific point, reposting to review again, lots of views.