Batting Out Of Order or NOT

[Mass Ump]

In a 14U JO ASA game after the batter completed her turn at bat and struck out for the third out of the inning the defensive coach came out of the dugout before the infielders were in foul territory and stated that the offensive team batted out of order. It was reported to the homeplate umpire by the defensive coach that number 44 was batting and not number 41 which was written on the lineup card. A runner crossed the plate two pitches prior to the strikeout so the run was taken away because of the batting out of order which I totally agree with. The only problem that I seen with the enforcement of the rule was that on the lineup card it had the girls names on it along with numbers and the girl in question at bat was the girl whose name was on the lineup card in that spot. Her number was written as 44 on the lineup card and not 41. I don't know if this would matter even if you had the wrong number because the ASA rulebook states Rule 7 Section 2 A. the batting order shall show the names, first and last, in the order in which the players are scheduled to bat. I think you could almost say the number was 41 its just a slash mark with the pencil. This was not my game but in my opinion I would not have called batting out of order since the girl in questions name was on the lineup card and she was batting.

[NCASAUmp]

If you determine that it was a case of mistaken numbers and that 41 should have been written as 44 (or however it worked out), make the correction and continue play with no penalty (ASA 3-6-D).

[PSUchem]

And even if it HAD been batting out of order, all advancement of runners on pitches that did not include the batter becoming a batter runner (hit, walk, etc.) would stand. The removal of the run was incorrect.

[DeputyUICHousto]

"before the next pitch, legal or illegal"

[Mass Ump]

Originally Posted by PSUchem

And even if it HAD been batting out of order, all advancement of runners on pitches that did not include the batter becoming a batter runner (hit, walk, etc.) would stand. The removal of the run was incorrect.

I thought according to Rule 7 Sec 2 D 2 b. EFFECT b. Any advance of runners and any run scored shall be nullified. All outs made stand. I know that the umpire made a mistake because of the ruling that NCASAUmp gave ASA 3-6-D.
But I thought if it was the incorrect batter that you would take away the run because it was the last out of the inning and even though the batter struck out the batting out of order was discovered before the infielders left fair territory. I thought it didn't matter which pitch it was to the batter, the run scored on a pass ball two pitches prior to the strikeout. It doesn't state in the rule book that the batter has to become a batter runner it states After the incorrect batter has completed a turn at bat. Any replies will help with my thought process.

[Mass Ump]

Originally Posted by ncasaump

if you determine that it was a case of mistaken numbers and that 41 should have been written as 44 (or however it worked out), make the correction and continue play with no penalty (asa 3-6-d).

thank you

[Mass Ump]

Originally Posted by DeputyUICHousto

"before the next pitch, legal or illegal"

It was the end of the Inning

[Az.Ump]

1. While the incorrect batter is at bat:
EFFECT: The correct batter must take the batter’s position and assume
any balls and strikes. Any runs scored or bases run while the incorrect
batter was at bat shall be legal. There is no penalty whether discovered
by the offense or defense while the incorrect batter is at bat.

D.1. applies during the at bat. D.2. applies after completion of the at bat (when the batter becomes a runner or is retired). There is no retroactivity.

Paul

[DeputyUICHousto]

Its simply a clerical mistake.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by DeputyUICHousto

Its simply a clerical mistake.

Names take precedence over numbers.

[MNBlue]

How is anyone suppose to know the name is correct?

Trust a coach?
Trust a player?

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by MNBlue

How is anyone suppose to know the name is correct?

Trust a coach?
Trust a player?

I'm not going to ask a 12-year old for her driver's license to prove it.

[MNBlue]

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

I'm not going to ask a 12-year old for her driver's license to prove it.

I understand.

I was specifically speaking to those people who WILL lie to us? Coaches, adult males, women - oops, I guess my wife doesn't play.

Sans a roster, do we just take people's word for it?

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by MNBlue

I understand.

I was specifically speaking to those people who WILL lie to us? Coaches, adult males, women - oops, I guess my wife doesn't play.

Sans a roster, do we just take people's word for it?

We don't have too many other options. If the adult coach is deceptive in their presentation of who a player is, then we have greater issues at stake. I can ask the child what his/her name is or check the numbers of the other players, but that's as far as I'm going to take it without further reason to believe that the story just isn't adding up.

Yes, people lie, but it's not my responsibility to conduct a witch hunt.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by MNBlue

How is anyone suppose to know the name is correct?

Trust a coach?
Trust a player?

In the OP, if one of the numbers appears on the lineup and the other does not, that makes the number seem wrong. If the name seems to match, either by the previous batter being correct or the ump recognizing the player's position, etc. then no issue.

But yes, sometimes faith is required (also by the other coach).